How to get 225-Lbs, rolling. By crazedfox (Read 2,198 times)

[crazedfox]

Ok, general tune/performance Q: here.

I'd like to take a "untouched bone-stock", Short-case, 10"-Wheels, 49.5cc, 1P39QMB, GY6, scoot.

& set it up/tune/mod-it whatever, to move 220-230Lbs, (Me, Equipment, ect.)

up-to a top speed of 45-Mph on the level-straights, & no less than 20-Mph on the hills.

What are you guys Recommendations/Changes to reach such a goal?
Is it possible?
_

P.S.
-No big-bore-kits-
I'd like to keep this a stock 49.5cc engine.
_

[davec]

Get a 150cc
Again, I never understood why someone would buy a 50cc, then do all the work to make it faster, when they coulda gotten a 150 instead (or a 250, etc.)

I was told cause of ins, registration, Motorcycle Lic, etc.
To me, I say, do the right thing, and get your MC training, Lic and Reg and Ins.

But, that's just me

I have read of the BBK's, perf exhaust, rollers, variator, etc etc.

But, yea, I guess it's doeable., but 45 at WOT for any length of time can't be good for the engine
But, again, that's just me.

I'm sure other 50cc folks will give ya the real skinny as to how they did theirs.
I just got the biggest I could get from the get go.


God speed and safe riding

Dave

[crazedfox]

Hey, davec.
I am slowly working towards my motorcycle license.

But it is as it was mentioned,
I cant afford the insurance, & my loans at this time.
 Besides all could afford & having no motorcycle-Lic to get was a 49.5cc scoot anyway.
One has got to accept what one can get, & my situation allowed me this.

But if I'm able to get around a little faster,
my butt won't as sore from riding a 31-Mi. 65-minute long one-way nonstop trips.

& having a motorcycle stamp on my license should keep most cops off my back about the hi-speed travel on a 50cc.
_

[alleyoop]

Mar 18, 2014 2:40:51 GMT -6 crazedfox said:

Ok, general tune/performance Q: here.

I'd like to take a "untouched bone-stock", Short-case, 10"-Wheels, 49.5cc, 1P39QMB, GY6, scoot.

& set it up/tune/mod-it whatever, to move 220-230Lbs, (Me, Equipment, ect.)

up-to a top speed of 45-Mph on the level-straights, & no less than 20-Mph on the hills.

What are you guys Recommendations/Changes to reach such a goal?
Is it possible?
_

P.S.
-No big-bore-kits-
I'd like to keep this a stock 49.5cc engine.
_

The motor does not have enough power to do what you want it to do without more displacement.

Just think about it, a stock 150cc will do 50mph at WOT. Some if your lucky will get a little past 50mph some high in the 40s and that is with 100 more ccs than what you are playing with. So not do-able STOCK.

Even putting in a 72cc kit it might reach close to 40mph at WOT. A 83cc kit will get you little over 40 some have gotten them to do 50s but that they had to put cams and taller gearing in the tranny and cvt work so a lot of coins and a lot of work. But they will not last very long.
Alleyoop

[lanternscooter]

yup if you want speed a 50 is not for you. i weigh the same as you and ill get about 28-30 out of it normally.. but hey thats fast enough for me. people who say thats not fast enough: try falling off at that speed. believe me, its fast enough.

also Alley is right on the engines not lasting as long with a BBK because of the added stress on the crank and bearings.

[crazedfox]

If these things won't go beyond 35-Mph stock.

Then how come I read about folks getting these scoots to go up to 50-Mph without any big bore kits?

Things like higher speed tires aired up to 45-PSI for less rolling resistance, changing the tranz gears, better veriator, rollers set to rider weight, higher RPM clutch-torque spring, heavier clutch springs, hotter coil, CDI w/rev-limiter, better spark-plug, larger carb., Oil cooler + extra filter set-up, & maybe even a stroker kit.
Heck even EFI will do wonders for a stock engine.

( There isn't much to be had with an exhaust kit. Get a 1-2 extra Mph, really? that isn't proformance, that's a rip off @ $100+ price tag. Get a pro exsuast tuner to build you one, money better spent without the bling-bling.)

But to say these things can't go up to @ least 40-Mph with only mild tuning?
Come on…
Most tuners just remove the "restrictive" crap & get 32-37 Mph all the time.

When I had my scoot running good, I've got it up to 37-Mph on a 50° day, bone-stock then.
Yeah the cool air, gave it a good dense charge.

But it would do 33-Mph average, on the flats.
So there is something to be had with these
3-cubic inch buggers.

I believe one can tune a 49.5cc scoot to go @ least 40-Mph @ live a long life.
Or
Go 60-Mph flogging the crap out of it, Til' it breaks.

So help a person out, & give a some pointers on which way to get some speed & MPG out of this thing, please.
_

[amac1680]

I guess my question is why?
More displacement can be had for a few more bucks.

The way I see it is more cc or lighten the load.........

[JR]

While I agree that the 50cc is limited there are a few things one can do to help a little as far as get up and go and a tad of top end that are simple and won't break the bank.

Yes I've read all the amazing stories of high speeds on a 50cc but IMO most are way overblown. For starters:

(1) Change rollers to sliders, one can just by design can keep the take off or even improve it and get a little top end.
(2) up-jetting the carb and a good uni-filter and even maybe opening up the muffler a bit. A lot of Chinese mufflers are restrictive on air flow. Take it off and especially check the welds where the flange is that bolts to the engine. I've seen these so poorly welded that the muffler pipe is half closed with what us welders call sugar, this can be removed with a small die grinder.
(3) While I'm not convinced some swear by CDI and coil change outs, Alley and TV can comment here
(4) This one is simple, put more air in the tires, less road friction = more speed.

Now this is not going to produce miracles but it will help, with all tuned well you might even get up to 5mph and the engine will not be over worked either with simple changes like this. Everything I mentioned can be done for under $100 and if this is your only means of transportation you can do these in short time frames to keep it up and running.

JR

[crazedfox]

Thank-you JR.

I'll be happy to get a 40-Mph topspeed if it means keeping the engine content.

If I can get a constant 35-Mph average, &
a 20-Mph up-hill out of it, that would be great as well.
----
I just don't like having to take 65 minutes for a 31-mile non-stop trip.
Shaving 8 minutes off can help one's backside alot.

If taking that 31-mile trip, I'd have to make it twice in a day.
Because that is the trip I'd have to take to make some guaranteed extra cash to get things paid off sooner.

I didn't get this scoot for recreational purposes, I purchased it to get me around & work.

& I reiterate, this was my only option for a vehicle that my situation would allow.
So had to make due, or do without a ride.
Having made due without a ride for a year was hard enough.
_

[lanternscooter]

Stories of 50MPH out of 50cc are BS. more displacement is needed. maybe those people's speedometers were inaccurate (like most are)
if you do end up putting more air in the tires, take care on turns. less of a contact patch on the road.

hell, ive never had a car of my own, just my scooter. hopefully that will change soon. it will only be for winter&rainy days however. the scoot always wins.

[alleyoop]

Mar 19, 2014 0:38:49 GMT -6 crazedfox said:

If these things won't go beyond 35-Mph stock.

Then how come I read about folks getting these scoots to go up to 50-Mph without any big bore kits?

Things like higher speed tires aired up to 45-PSI for less rolling resistance, changing the tranz gears, better veriator, rollers set to rider weight, higher RPM clutch-torque spring, heavier clutch springs, hotter coil, CDI w/rev-limiter, better spark-plug, larger carb., Oil cooler + extra filter set-up, & maybe even a stroker kit.
Heck even EFI will do wonders for a stock engine.

( There isn't much to be had with an exhaust kit. Get a 1-2 extra Mph, really? that isn't proformance, that's a rip off @ $100+ price tag. Get a pro exsuast tuner to build you one, money better spent without the bling-bling.)

But to say these things can't go up to @ least 40-Mph with only mild tuning?
Come on…
Most tuners just remove the "restrictive" crap & get 32-37 Mph all the time.

When I had my scoot running good, I've got it up to 37-Mph on a 50° day, bone-stock then.
Yeah the cool air, gave it a good dense charge.

But it would do 33-Mph average, on the flats.
So there is something to be had with these
3-cubic inch buggers.

I believe one can tune a 49.5cc scoot to go @ least 40-Mph @ live a long life.
Or
Go 60-Mph flogging the crap out of it, Til' it breaks.

So help a person out, & give a some pointers on which way to get some speed & MPG out of this thing, please.
_

Don't believe what they say about their MPH speeds, these are young folks toting unrealistic numbers just to outdo others. I usually get in
trouble with these young pups and some not so young when I tell them if they can't prove it, it didn't happen. Toting those unrealistic numbers get others then questioning WHY their almost identical scooter only does 30-32mph, JUST LIKE YOU are doing and believing. I don't know if they are seeing their speedo reach those numbers and believe it BUT the speedos on those scoots are off 20%+ registering higher than the real mph they are moving. Just about all of your 50cc scoots do 30 and a little over.

You may get a few more mph out of it with CVT changes but not in the range that you want.

Folks with a 49.5cc motor put in at least a 72cc big bore kit to get it NEAR 40mph they may get to 35-38 mph with a 72cc Big Bire Kit and those are true facts. You need power to move weight and the motors as they are only put out 2.5-3 horsepower. You can play around with other things to get more speed out of it BUT you will pay in the length of time it takes to get to those speeds. To get more top end speed you need to turn the VARIATOR faster and to do that you need high RPMS and why because the Variator is smaller in diameter on the 50cc scoots. On the 150s they are bigger in Diameter. Now you can put in a performance Variator on the 50s which are a little bit bigger but the size is limited due to the case where the variator fits into, Also due to the Electric start BENDIX that gets in the way. Without more horsepower you may need a mile of Wide Open Throttle for it to reach more mph top end speed. We are not being hard headed here we are just trying to tell you the facts.
Alleyoop

[crazedfox]

I know alley, & thanks for that input.

I never trusted any odometer until I verified it by GPS &/or handheld diagnostic computer.
Even today's autos odometers are still off by 1 to 2½.

The scooter's odometer is accurate up til' 20-Mph after 25-Mph it's a complete loss.
So I use my GPS for accuracy, top-speed, MPG, & trip meter.

That's how I know my how fast my scoot has hit on the flats.
Best recorded WOT top was 37-Mph. Average top 32-Mph. on long flats. UN-tuned.

So I know with some tuning I know I could get to 40-Mph working WOT on a good long flat.
& 35-Mph average top speed, that is possible I'm sure of.
_

[scot]

find a good 250 when you can ,i think speeds are overated ,couse what will happen though 150cc may work you will find still not enough I am 6ft4 an 250 an 50cc is just to small,atleast wait for 150cc touring wich is the same size as a 250 with less power an has the room a big person needs ,an great for scooting around city,iwas going to get 150 touring for 1500.00 then relized I have few places I need to get up to 60 an I just dopnt think a 150,willget 60 with my weight up hils mostly I guess they say 150s do 60,yes with 140lbs guy on it ,if my 250 get 55 up hill I will be surprised ,just do what you need to save for the bigger scoot like some said all the money an time for mph,hey mmmmotor had 150 $400.00+ shipping hehehehehe not ready to try that yet, I have friend just got 49cc tao tao an she has not choise like you,her case is  she has not driver licence for awhile an a lot of states don't need it for 49cc or less I the 49cc brings me back to fa 50 bye honday they were so easy to work on ran forever 2 stroke lighter an 35mph felt like 50 on dirt roads  ,some say an sites to say the 250 gets 75mph an 300,80mph,i don't think so though ,I guess if mine gets 55mph to 60 I will be happy ,an if I deside I don't like the 250 I will sell it cheap ,

[colonelangis]

Listen to JR & Alley,..they know their stuff
If you are stuck with the scoot for now,..go with simple mods like JR mentioned,.but I would include an oil cooler if you want your motor to last,..wide open throttle is gonna kill it fast unless you change your oil every week at the least
There are tons of kids on these forums who claim 50,...maybe down a 40 degree hill with the wind at their back
I own a 50cc Maddog,... it will go 41 on the flats,..speedo says 47
Changed out to sliders,.added NYC trans,..not necessary on NYC stuff keep it simple
No bbk ,.just rejet hi flw air filter,..I have an oil cooler as well,.monster scooter parts has them at a huge bargain right now,.30 bucks with hardware,..others start around 100 more that I have found online,..you pay for the brand name
It will pay for itself with less frequent oil changes.and longer motor life
Trust me,..you don't want to burn up that motor since its your only transportation,..and it will burn up with that type of riding,..just wasn't meant for that type of travel without one

[amac1680]

Ill never understand the argument that one can't afford to get a MC endorsement and insurance but can somehow justify dumping money into rollers, gears, exhaust etal on what will always be an underpowered scooter.

Sorry but it defies logic registration and insurance is cheap.