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Post by bobf on Dec 3, 2015 10:36:54 GMT -6
Thanks Wheezy. I did replace the rubber air fitting between the engine block and the carburetor. I also put a new air tube in between the air filter and carburetor. Both of those items had turned hard and made it impossible to get them properly onto the carburetor.
I will take a look into that adjustment on the carburetor. I know that it is on this Honda set up page I am using. In fact it is the next item after I look into the Ignition Pulse Generator. So we are moving along. Sure appreciate your inputs.
One more time consuming thing to do is to try to make sure I have all the vacuum and other hoses where they should be.
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Post by bobf on Dec 3, 2015 7:14:12 GMT -6
What you call piecemeal approach is because I am following the Honda Helix repair manual now. I wish I knew what has caused all these problems. Over heating so fixed the radiator. Then engine fiddling around started. Tried forum help of new carb but that did not work. Replaced the air system as the older was not good any more. Still not running much at all so now using the Honda guides. Still not working and will continue to follow Honda guide as it makes more sense than the lack of help from the forum. Will also continue to post so others can see the futility of working on this scoot with no help from anyone. If I hit on the solutions I am sure others on here will appreciate it too.
Selling the scoot. That is my goal. Just need it to run first. Otherwise I will just have to give it away if not running. Next step is for the Ignition Pulse Generator according to Honda book. Wish I had ways to check and test rather than order and buy. A good dealer in Casa Grande would be a help. May need to go into Phoenix, closer than Tucson, in the end.
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Post by bobf on Dec 2, 2015 13:11:39 GMT -6
jennkarley and others. My new CDI did nothing for my scoot engine at all. It is the same as before. Runs at what ever rate it chooses. So another $10 wasted. Next, according to my older Honda Trouble Shooting list is the Ignition Pulse Generator, another $10 item. Not sure where it is located but will take some time tomorrow to find the part and see how it may be ordered and installed.
This piece meal way of testing and fixing is getting old. Sure wish we had some real scooter mechanics where I live. It is also backfiring as it is running roughly along but not running nicely. I never see backfiring in the Honda service manual. Maybe I have just missed the information.
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Post by bobf on Nov 28, 2015 9:47:34 GMT -6
I am expecting a solution soon. I am waiting for the delivery of an electrical part. A couple more may need to be bought before I find the one to fix the crazy running problems. If I don't get the part today it should be around then on Monday or Tuesday. Good thing they are not real expensive or I would just park the scoot on the sidewalk with a 'Please take me' sign on it.
I am now using the Honda trouble shooting guide for ideas. As you have read I did redo my air system to the carb and from the carb to the engine. It needed replaced as the flex was gone and impossible to get reassembled. Now I chase electrical ideas. Where I live there are no shops wanting to work on it. Sixty miles north in parts of Phoenix area there are shops that sell and service. Maybe one of them can help me if my current campaign does not find the problem.
I will post my successes and failures so keep looking on occasion.
EDIT: Part is now said to be delivered this coming Wednesday, 2 December. Will report how it goes probably on Thursday.
EDIT: Part arrive this afternoon, 1 Dec, in the mail. Tried but could not start with new or old. I think the battery was low so it is on charger. We have been having some low temps lately. Today it started at 32 degrees and that may have discouraged the battery a bit. Tomorrow it will be charged and when I have time I will try to run the scoot with old and new part. Will report my results afterword.
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Post by bobf on Nov 24, 2015 18:23:49 GMT -6
I don't know yet what is wrong with my engine. It still varies between a choppy idle and high end roar. Up and down and up and down and finally a coughing choke to quiet.
I just ordered a CDI for my scoot. I compared my order to the one being offered for $9.95 and $4.95 shipping. Probably late next week due to Easter time for many.
Recvd email: Order was packaged and mailed UPS on Wed evening.
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Post by bobf on Nov 22, 2015 13:35:53 GMT -6
That is the way things go on this forum. I often ask a question and then wait days for a response. Other times any question I asked is answered the same day. I have been working on my scoot for some long time now but just have not gotten to the solution yet. Fixed the boiling radiator with help diagnosing. Rebuilt my air delivery system to end air leakage. Still can not get the engine to idle or continue running. Now following the Honda repair manual and it is helping but leaving me with questions. Waiting for an answer right now. Hoping next week I will be free to spend more time with the manual and my scoot.
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Post by bobf on Nov 22, 2015 8:29:10 GMT -6
If you look at this forum Barry had asked several questions. I think all have now been attended.
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Post by bobf on Nov 21, 2015 14:56:18 GMT -6
Today I had time to work on my scoot. Not much but I checked the Ohm's on the cable of the starting enrichment (SE) thermal valve.
The Honda manual says it is to be 10 ohm/s. If the reading is not within the limit, replace the SE thermal valve. On mine it read at about 7 ohm. Does this mean to replace the thermal valve ? Within the limit is a bit vague. Does it need 10 ohm or above or 10 ohm exact or 10 ohm or less.
Then I started the engine, forgetting that I had disconnected the thermal valve cable. It started and ran, roughly. It would drop down to about a 1000 rpm or less then idle at about 2000 rpm then drop down and go back up and sometimes it would rise up to about 3000 rmp then drop down again. This went on for quite a bit of time. Enough to get the head too hot to touch. Then it quite.
So I hooked up the cables and tried it again. It started and ran. But not for long as it would just shut down. Restart and run for a few seconds and then shut down again.
I am not sure if what I have found is a clue to all the start and run problems or not.
Any advice would be appreciated.
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Post by bobf on Nov 19, 2015 9:24:17 GMT -6
Thanks ellpee. You are right. Today again I go to the hospital for the wife's blood test. Then this afternoon to her heart doctors.
If the guy in Tucson won't go into the engine, then he won't like me. There are scoot shops up in Phoenix that do sell these scoots. So if necessary I could go to them. And Phoenix is closer than Tucson, I think. Also looking for a Honda dealer that may work on the engine if I give him a stripped down scoot. For a valve job I wonder if I could just pull the top off the engine and take it to a machine shop, like the Honda dealer. Something to look into if that is where I end up. Just need the valves and a gasket set to get that done and rebuilt.
I just put some SeaFoam in my scoot tank. But won't get to work on it today. Maybe tomorrow. I need to do those resistance checks to get beyond the electronics. Then move on down the list.
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Post by bobf on Nov 18, 2015 8:56:38 GMT -6
I am trying to get past starting, poor idle control, and stopping. Just not running well at all. Idle will start but then run faster, then slower, then faster, then stop. Sometimes it may backfire, but other time not. Can't seem to get beyond a minute or two of running but when I stay on the throttle and adjust to keep it going, I get enough time to warm the head a bit. Some carb adjustment coming further down the list of the Honda guide.
I just want to have time to do the resistance checks suggested before I start doing the carb adjustments. I am going to take the wife shopping to day and while in WalMart I hope to find SeaFoam for the gas tank. A person from Texas suggested that as a help in cleaning the carb. Worth a try before fiddling with carb adjustments.
Thanks for your inputs ellpee.
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Post by bobf on Nov 18, 2015 7:06:42 GMT -6
As far as I am concerned I am done with the air system and the carb. Just replaced the air system from behind the carb and before the carb. Replaced the carb and it got worse so I put the original carb back in. I followed the wires and reset connections till the replaced temp senders actually started running the fan. Now I have a Honda Helix engine manual, something that many say is the engine in our scoots, that I am following. So I have redone the valves with the Honda technique of cold and set by hand. It seemed more secure to me than while running and listening for tapping. On my engine the clamping bolts were spinning and looked like they might just spin off while listening for tapping starting or ending. It was a three handed job. Cold setting was good on my engine. Move the arm till you feel resistance. Then set a half mark back to loose directions and lock it down. That is supposed to be the .04 setting;
Now I find disagreements in the manual and some descriptions in the market place that do not match. One being the Ignition Control Module in the Honda manual that are 6 connector boxes working to help control the spark but in the markets they are called 6 pin CDI for a 172MM scooter. The descriptions and pictures look the same but names are different. So my question about what is a 172 MM scooter.
I am pretty much done with mechanical solutions right now, but for damaged valves and a valve job.
I was hoping for a low cost electrical solution and the Ignition Control Module($10) and the Ignition Pulse Generator come up often in the trouble shooter charts. And often in likely hood positions of 1 and 2. I have not tested them yet as described in the Honda guide, will do when again I have time to work on my scoot. I was just looking for availability and cost. Satisfied that cost is not much. I found sets, not matching my scoot for CDI, Pulse Generator, and what looked like connecting to plug wire, for about $35 - $45. These were for the lower powered scoots like 50cc or 150cc. Not sure for the 250cc. Still reading and trying to test, Honda suggest a resistance check and gives numbers to look for, and decide which way to go.
You commented that you did not see the CDI as the problem. So once again can you give me a good hint at what to look for? One area suggest poor connections at the ignitions switch and other places. I think I have already done that but maybe another look again won't hurt. It was something that came on quickly and I just can't seem to find it successfully. I think the overheat and fan is fixed. The air system is new and hopefully fixed. Your next best suggestion will be looked at.
But for lack of experience I will try to follow the Honda trouble shooter list that makes sense to me. If I could get it running enough to drive to a motorcycle scooter repair place, not sure we have one here in Casa Grande, I would take it to them for some help. Otherwise the end will be a low price and on the curb.
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Post by bobf on Nov 17, 2015 9:40:12 GMT -6
Thanks for your post ellpee. You are right, I am looking for the wrong part. I should be looking for the Ignition Control Module the ICM according to the trouble shooting charts. So back to work again and seeing if I can find and test it.
My question was actually about the term 172MM. Does this mean the water cooled Honda we have in our scoots, or something else? In your case in your previous scoot.
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Post by bobf on Nov 16, 2015 16:37:51 GMT -6
I need help for ordering parts. I have the water cooled Honda clone and am looking at possible parts to order. I see two parts side by side at the vendors. One is described as for the 250 engine and the other is for the 250 engine and they describe it as for a 172MM.
Sometimes I see the 172MM in posts here and now in catalogs for parts. Just what does 172MM mean. I hope it is for the water cooled Honda Helix clone that I have.
A 6 pin CDI for $9.95. Have not tested it yet but it comes up a lot in the 'Trouble shooting list'.
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YY250T
by: bobf - Nov 16, 2015 6:48:39 GMT -6
Post by bobf on Nov 16, 2015 6:48:39 GMT -6
First thing you can do is find the wires to the dash lights then follow the cable backward towards the switches and battery. Make sure none are cut and all connections are good. Good grounding is needed. Can't think of more for a first look.
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Post by bobf on Nov 13, 2015 6:52:28 GMT -6
Yesterday, 12 Nov 2015, my new air tube arrived in the mail. I have already reset the valves cold, restarted the engine, after setting the valves. It ran briefly so I am sure the valves are set OK. I have now got a black mark on the top of the adjuster parts so I should be able to get back close to the set place if they do get moved. Hope to get the air tube installed today but may have to wait till tomorrow.
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