Overheating issue By bbunce1 (Read 1,301 times)

[bbunce1]

I have a Roketa 2013 MCR-54-250. I am pretty sure it is the 244 from looking at the pictures in another thread. It has about 650 miles and I am the original owner since November, 2013. 

Problem: Overheats in idle or riding after about a 1/2 mile- fan never comes on. 

What I've tried to do so far:  Drained the coolant (2nd time since owning it) I also "burped" the scooter several times and that seemed to help at first. I drove it around the neighborhood at around 20-25 mph for about 3-4 miles and the temperature remained between 1/4 - 1/2 on the gauge. (When I stopped the engine, after a few seconds, I turned the scooter on again-not starting just to see if the fan was working-but fan wasn't running) About an hour or so later, I checked the coolant again and it was a little low so I filled it to the top again. I burped it one more timer. Next, I started it, left it in idle and it overheated again after 10 minutes! (fan did not come on) arrgh  I don't believe there is a blockage anywhere because all the hoses seemed warm. At this point, I am almost positive the overheating problem is because the fan doesn't operate. 


My next steps (tomorrow):  From reading other posts on overheating issues I should check the following: fuses, thermostat, and thermostat switch. What else should I troubleshoot? How do I check the fan? I've read that I can reverse some wires from somewhere and that should turn it on. 

This really is a frustrating experience for me. I got rid of my previous vehicle ($40,000 land rover) because that was overheating all the time. The mechanics never did find the problem. 

I am so glad I found this forum and thank you for any advice. 

[alleyoop]

First put 12 v to the fan and see if that fan works. If it works then it must be the temp sensor that is bad or check the wires going to it and make sure they are not broke or not making good contact.
Alleyoop

[JR]

Yes Alley is right, we need to see if the fan will work at all. Need to strip her enough that you can access the thermo switch on the radiator. It could be something as simple as a bad connection.

Now once you get her open we can do a couple of tests to see if it's getting voltage. Turn the key on and on one side of the thermo switch the wire that goes back to the fuse box take a multi meter and see if you have 12Vdc+. If you do then simply pull that wire off and touch the other one going to the fan, if it runs then bingo, we have one of two things wrong:

Thermo switch is bad or
Still too much air in the system.

Fan will NOT run with air in the system.

If the fan does run, jump it with the hot wire, make sure it's full of coolant, start it and see if it runs cool.

If you have no voltage to the thermo switch with the key on then check the fuse and fuse box, the fuse boxes are notorious for having poor connections. BTW do not just eyeball a fuse, check it with a meter.

JR

[scot]

yes you need to take off the black grille in front on 2013 your radiator an fan are in front all the screws to the plastic in the front ,about 6 to 8 outside 6 to 8 inside this one is pretty easy ,an 2 at bottom ,then you will be able to look in an see if the 2 conectors are connected as well as I think the guys told you there is fuse for fan to check them all,an get ready to replace them couse there cheap,i thought I had leak so I took mine apart to find that out the 2 connectors are right at the bottom, got it  back on first page possible leak 2013,from there if the connectors are good an the fuse is good then follow the wires on up ,hopefully you don't have to go that far ,yes like jr said when you get it apart see if it works found it. its there above or below depeding when you get to it,i got mine on nov 2013 from power ride outlet 

[scot]

thread about possible leak talk all about how to take apart the plastics an pics page 3 has a pretty good shot of the fan motor an see the 2 hoses the one closest right not realy seen is the connection at bottom,but yes follow directions above takes about 10 15 minutes to get the black grill off ,without takeing to much off ,for first trouble shoot yes running right along the hose closest to you in the connectors right behind that hose

[bbunce1]

Can you give me a link to the pictures? So far I got the 6 screws off behind the front wheel on the black cover protecting the radiator. 

[bbunce1]

Never mind, I got the cover off. Just was a little stuck.

[scot]

yes its the thread right below this one on main page ,yes hope its easy enough for you ,but that thread bob explains to me how to properly take all the other plastic off ,of the down falls is the side panals have to come off to get any further then a bottom one comes off ,take your time ,you seat would also need to come off ,hope you don't have to go any further,though like said right on this 250 page the thread right below this one keep us updated that thread shows if you need to go any further takeing plastic off carefully ,keep us updated JR An alleyoop can help best with trouble shooting from hear

[bbunce1]

Update: I removed the radiator protective panel but could not reach the back of the radiator to check the wires. So I removed 1 of the side covers and then could reach everything ok. Looks like I have some type of electrical problems. Then I checked the fuse box by pulling them out and checking for continuity. I know should have done that first. One of the fuses casing was broken and the fuse was like melted to the fuse box. After replacing the fuse with a good checked one, I then unplugged the wiring harness that plugged into the fan. The inside was brown on both sides...the side that came from the battery was brown and the plug that goes directly into the fan was brown. I also checked the glass fuse by the battery. That fuse is ok. Next, I made a wire that plugged directly into the fan. Swapped the wires around and still nothing. My next step I plan to do is completely remove the rest of the one side covers so I can see everything better. Unless you guys think I should do something else.
Scot: I got my scooter from the same place and same month, November, 2013! How is that for a coincidence?
Thanks again for everyone's help and support. It's great to know I'm not alone.

[alleyoop]

Did you check the wire coming from the battery with a multi meter or 12v light test to make sure it had 12v?
Alleyoop

If you don't have one already get yourself a 12V Light Tester they are Indispensible for checking voltage on wires on a scoot that should have voltage, they are only a couple of bucks.

[bbunce1]

Update: Decided to remove the other side panel. Now I can clearly see the back side of the radiator but still can't follow where the wire is attached to the battery. I really don't want to remove the middle area because that would mean I'd need to almost remove the rear section. I will try again tomorrow when it's daylight or maybe in a few days. Thanks and hope everyone here is doing well. If you guys ever come to Northern Florida, let me know. If my scooter ever sees another mile, we could go up along the coast line.

Brian

[scot]

i was thinking from there the wires would be connected to thermostat in the middle ,yes if you have to just be careful take you time .to not break the plastic ,I did break one tab myself it happens ,ya that's to bad you ended up with that much problems with a new one I guess I will find out to ,though my fan works for now I still only got 10 miles couse the weather

[ellpee]

I perceive some terminology confusion going on here, so let me throw this in:

The fan circuit works like this:
Battery --> ignition switch --> fusebox (fan fuse) --> thermoswitch at lower right (rear side) of radiator --> Fan -- out of fan --> ground. The ThermoSTAT is something entirely different, and shouldn't have anything to do with your fan not running as far as I know. If it doesn't open correctly it could certainly cause overheating, but in that case the fan ought to be working its butt off trying to compensate.

If you can find the pigtail that comes off the fan, unplug it, put 12v to one side and ground the other side; the fan will or will not run. If it runs, plug it back in, all is good there. If it doesn't run, bad fan, time to replace it. If you do, Alleyoop knows of one that fits perfectly and pulls a lot less amperage than the OEM fan. Side benefit.

If the fan runs, the next possibility up the line is the thermoswitch. The two wires that plug into that are 12v in from battery, 12v out to the fan when the coolant gets hot enough. Unplug that connection and (with ignition on, of course) check it for 12v on one side or the other. If you get 12v, everything "upstream" is okay and the switch is suspect. To confirm that, put 12v to the OTHER side of the connector you unplugged, thereby bypassing the switch and sending juice directly to the fan. (If you got 12v on the one side, simply jumper that side to the other.) It should run; if it does, the thermoswitch is bad. It's POSSIBLE it's just a bad connection, check the little pins closely and make sure everything looks good and the connection when plugged in is nice and tight. If that all looks good, time to invest in a new thermoswitch.

If when you checked the plug for the thermoswitch you did NOT get 12v on one side or the other, for some reason juice is not making it from the fusebox down to the thermoswitch. Check at the fuse end to make sure 12v is going INTO that particular wire; if yes, that wire is interrupted somewhere along the way, and replacing it ought to cure the problem. You can test that with a really long jumper wire from that fuse down to the thermoswitch if you like, but you'll have to get a little creative at the thermoswitch end to get your jumper connected to the "in" side and still have a good "out" connection to the fan. If you then run the engine long enough to reach halfway on the temp gauge and the fan kicks in as it should, you've found your problem.

You say you've already checked the fusebox and fuses, so I won't take this any further "upstream."

Hope that's in some way helpful. And sorry you have to pull so much plastic to get at those darn plugs. Been there, done that, hated it.

[bbunce1]

Thank you for your suggestions. I will try all of that tomorrow and hopefully start riding again by next week. Thanks again for your help and will let you know what I find.

[bbunce1]

Update: Voltage from the battery to the fan was good. I removed the plug connection from the battery. That was good. Then I plugged the ends back together and still had 12v on the fan plug side. The fan works very good too after hot wiring it from the battery.

I then burped the radiator again just to make sure that wasn't the problem. To burp the radiator, I let it get real cold, then remove the cap. I start the scooter and wait until the coolant is almost coming out the top. Recheck after it gets really cold and add coolant as necessary to fill it to the top. Then put the top back on. Let me know if that is the wrong procedure. The last time I did it I couldn't add any more fluid. Let me know if that is the incorrect procedure.

I started the scooter and again, after almost exactly minutes in idle, the temperature reached to between 3/4 and the hot line just like it had been doing and the fan never came on.

Then I removed the thermo switch from the radiator and followed a youtube video (https://.youtube.com/watch?v=lkwJoLBGr9Q) on how to test if it is good or not. (cold the switch should not have continuity -multimeter showing 1- and at about 170 in water it should show continuity (actually displayed the water temperature I think, showed 170 and the number went down as the temperature got colder). Do you know if 170 is to high or is that ok? I will wait until someone tells me if that's ok because getting that switch off was a huge pain. I had to remove the radiator because the bolt was on very tight and there was no room to get a wrench around it without having it on my workbench. Also, I forgot to remove the coolant before I took that thing off and now I have a green floor.

Now I am not sure what to do next. The connections looked good. The coolant seems to be flowing through the radiator because all of the hoses are very warm. The only thing I haven't checked is the voltage going into the thermo switch. The two pins going to the switch were good and tight when I pulled them out. I think I checked the voltage and got a very low reading but I'll recheck. Does it matter which pin goes where on the switch? What voltage should it be getting?

Any suggestions on what I should try next? The scooter is in about a billion pieces right now so I can access just about everything on it. The one thing I keep thinking about is the burn marks inside the connections. However, I get voltage through the wires anyway. I am also thinking about getting a rechargeable 12v battery and just connect the fan to that. I think I could rig up an on/off switch so wouldn't have to disconnect the battery every time. Thanks again guys..