Bye Bye CfMoto By JR (Read 2,815 times)

[JR]

martinracingperformance.blogspot.com/2012/08/cf-moto-getting-out-of-scooters.html

Doesn't surprise me have said it for awhile. Lawsuits like this don't help:

utvdealernews.com/Polaris%20sues%20CFMoto.html

Over 6000 Scooters recalled in 2011 and this market and economy all add up to moving on.

Looks like MRP will be beefing up on more of the hard to find parts they always advertise.

JR

[prodigit]

makes me glad I have a linhai clone, and hope that they will not fall for the same trap!

[SuperDaveGulvak]

As long as I can get parts for a few years to get my $ worth out of it til I get a Honda and not some commie turd LoL

[wolfhound]

Speaking of Honda I have a friend who went to buy a simple part for his Big Ruckus only to find that the dealer
wanted 3 times what it should cost. The parts clerk said it was because the BR was a discontinued unit. He then
quietly suggested that my friend by the same part now offered under different parts number for about a third of
the price. It was exactly the same as the old part. So, it pays to dig deeper when buying parts for older scoots.

[kz1000st]

The guys at MRP write an article claiming that CF Moto is moving away from scooters and it's all over for CF. Not hardly. It's no secret CF isn't selling 150s at the moment-here. I don't think that holds true for Europe, Asia and about 80% of the rest of the world.

I notice the Jetmax and V-5 (a scooter that looks like a bike) are still for sale. Is Honda, Kawasaki, Yamaha and Suzuki going away because they don't sell anything smaller than a 250 also? How about Harley Davidson?? Their smallest bike is 883cc.

No I'll happily ride my Fashion for another twenty years and then trade it on whatever CF Moto is selling then.

[prodigit]

They chose a bad moment in time to go away.
50cc often is too small to drive around town on most roads. Most 125cc motors are cross motorcycles, which no one wants. The 150cc's are going to be very popular, because of rising gas prices, and because they can accelerate just like a car (or faster), and they can be used on the highway for short highway trips (say 5-10 minutes driving at 65MPH).

I personally find the 260cc too heavy to drive around town to go to the grocery or just to drive around for fun! The 260 I have is too light for long distance highway driving too...

I should have gotten a 400/600cc for long distance driving, and a 150cc for driving around town.
Many people willing to pay the $200 to get their motorcycle endorsement will love the improvement a 150cc has over a 50cc!

[JR]

Aug 18, 2012 12:49:38 GMT -6 kz1000st said:

The guys at MRP write an article claiming that CF Moto is moving away from scooters and it's all over for CF. Not hardly. It's no secret CF isn't selling 150s at the moment-here. I don't think that holds true for Europe, Asia and about 80% of the rest of the world.

I notice the Jetmax and V-5 (a scooter that looks like a bike) are still for sale. Is Honda, Kawasaki, Yamaha and Suzuki going away because they don't sell anything smaller than a 250 also? How about Harley Davidson?? Their smallest bike is 883cc.

No I'll happily ride my Fashion for another twenty years and then trade it on whatever CF Moto is selling then.

Is Honda, Kawasaki, Yamaha and Suzuki going away because they don't sell anything smaller than a 250 also

Oh but some are learning their lesson on that. What is Honda bringing back? I'll let you tell all on that one.

I notice the Jetmax and V-5 (a scooter that looks like a bike) are still for sale.


(a scooter that looks like a bike) No it's a ugly motorcycle that wants to be called a scooter.


V-5 want to really call it a scooter and people aren't beating the doors down to buy them either. Jetmax we'lll see if Moto can make a go of their own design after all all they have ever built is a copy of others. Besides Moto isn't wooing everyone with their it's a better scooter at $4k and setting any sales records either, want a scooter you want it for economy and price and the Jetmax if you even want to call it a scooter is just plain ugly and won't appeal to a real mainstream scooter person.

I want a motorcycle I'm buying what you mentioned one of the big three and not worry about reputation or mechanical problems and is not ugly.

Add this to their brillant thoughts for the future is discontinuing a line of scooters that at least have a known background and history even if they are overpriced cheap Chinese scooters.

MRP like them or not they are in the know and always are around to pick up the pieces of failed scooters and have parts ask Flyscooters. They didn't just make up this they got an inside track you can bet on it.

Ride it for 20 years and buy what they are selling? Maybe? You may have to get on a boat to bring one home, in the mean time you can buy a couple of cheap Chinese scooters and do like you've always done, PDI them and ride the wheels off and with the money you save buying them you'll be able to buy the high price we're the only one with OEM parts from MRP until they run out and hope Ebay still has some left. ;D

You might want to put that Fashion in a glass case and keep it up? Who knows in that 20 year span it might be like a old Harley panhead of the 30's and 40's worth something!


It's just like Mr. long time CfMoto himself said "they just don't get it"

scootdawg.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=questionable&action=display&thread=53496

JR

[kz1000st]

I see even you're laughing at a ridiculous old Harley being worth anything.

Jetmax we'lll see if Moto can make a go of their own design after all all they have ever built is a copy of others.

Sorry I must have missed it. What were the V-3, V-5 and E-charm copies of. Until the SH-150i nobody else made a 16" wheeled, water cooled, fuel injected scooter.

[JR]

Aug 19, 2012 5:25:27 GMT -6 kz1000st said:

I see even you're laughing at a ridiculous old Harley being worth anything.

Jetmax we'll see if Moto can make a go of their own design after all all they have ever built is a copy of others.

Sorry I must have missed it. What were the V-3, V-5 and E-charm copies of. Until the SH-150i nobody else made a 16" wheeled, water cooled, fuel injected scooter.

Fashion, body and engine a copy, E-charm engine copy, V3 and V5 engine copy and by the article on the Jetmax review a total admission that the Jetmax is Moto's first venture of unknown waters, their own design.

kenandtheartofmotorcyclemaintenance.com/blog/33/cfmoto-an-epitome-of-china-innovation/


Heck even the people on Facebook know CFMoto has never been nothing but a copy cat of even Polaris.

.facebook.com/CFMOTO?sk=info" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">.facebook.com/CFMOTO?sk=info

Even the logo.

.justgottascoot.com/cfmotojetmax.htm" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">.justgottascoot.com/cfmotojetmax.htm

Seems though there is one thing even the Jetmax can claim copy on how many models of a an other quality high priced scooter company end in the letter i as in 250i ?

So the question is if they were so good, so dependable why did they can the most popular models at least in the USA and why are they leaving as far as a real scooter the USA except for one high priced unappealing model? They didn't copy that move.

The bottom line is there are too many Chinese copies out there now coming into the USA that are cheap Chinese scooters for 1/2 the price doesn't take a brain surgeon to see that and they have never been able to measure up to the big boy scooters even if they are a touch less than they are.

People will pay 30 to 40% more for a Kymco and have all the goodies of warranty and service, a scooter with reliability and support and have a scooter that holds it's blue book value also.

After all most average income people who purchase a $4k plus scooter finance them anyway and the difference on a monthly payment from $4k to $6k is $30 a month at 72 payments a easy decision of what to buy.

A easy picture to see here and it should be easy for the people who say "they just don't get it' to see also. Got to sell them to keep the doors open and people who wait to they hit the Craiglist ads to buy them to get a affordable price isn't putting the $$$$ at the end of the financial report sheet that Moto wants to see.

So what do you do? Simple concentrate on areas where the $$$$ add up to profit at the end of the year and that's not in the USA and they know it.

They are doing well elsewhere:

.cfmoto.com.au/news/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">.cfmoto.com.au/news/

.cfmoto.com.au/news/?catID=&newsID=81&action=view" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">.cfmoto.com.au/news/?catID=&newsID=81&action=view

Look at the bottom of the page of the list of growing machines they are building, how many scooters were listed? Did you see USA in that list of countries in the worldwide network mentioned?

But I tell you one thing that all the southerners here need to start asking them about, those are some mean looking ATV's and everyone knows that when you say the South in the good old USA you say ATV now there's a spot that they might land standing on their feet but whoops I forgot they wouldn't want to make Polaris mad on that one so it'll probably not ever happen.

.polaris.com/en-us/atv-ranger-rzr/home.aspx" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">.polaris.com/en-us/atv-ranger-rzr/home.aspx

As good as those Polaris ATV's look I don't think they need any help and BTW I do like the looks of those Victory machines, they really have a classic look of bikes of old and I especially like the engine design and looks they'll fit right in with the packs that run around here. ;D

.victorymotorcycles.com/en-us/home.aspx" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">.victorymotorcycles.com/en-us/home.aspx

JR

[kz1000st]

Fashion, body and engine a copy, E-charm engine copy, V3 and V5 engine copy and by the article on the Jetmax review a total admission that the Jetmax is Moto's first venture of unknown waters, their own design.

Yes, the Fashion is a copy of the Helix. I'm sorry, what engine is the E-Charm a copy of. It can't be a GY6. Which, according to all informed sources is a fully Chinese motor.

The bottom line is there are too many Chinese copies out there now coming into the USA that are cheap Chinese scooters for 1/2 the price doesn't take a brain surgeon to see that and they have never been able to measure up to the big boy scooters even if they are a touch less than they are.

Yes, quite true. While I'm riding a Helix copy. At least it has a good reputation. Pity the poor guys riding Reflex copies with copies of Linhai Yamaha motors. I have a copy of a Japanese built engine. Poor Linhai clone owners are riding with copies of Chinese built engines.

Yes, Victory is a great engine. Over head cams, four valves per cylinder and a solid unit construction motor. So much better than another poor quality V-Twin sold to far too many people.

Besides? What would you do as a company? Keep selling scooters in a market that only sells one-tenth as many units as bikes or go after the real money and sell motorcycles, along with a few scooters, like the big boys. If you want to see companies that will soon perish look no further than SYM and Kymco. What? One bike in each of their lineups. Now that's a quick way to go under.

Oh, and if they're going to fail they'll be doing it with a better bike than anything you can buy online.
cyclenews.coverleaf.com/cyclenews/20120522#pg83

[JR]

Aug 19, 2012 13:38:54 GMT -6 kz1000st said:

Fashion, body and engine a copy, E-charm engine copy, V3 and V5 engine copy and by the article on the Jetmax review a total admission that the Jetmax is Moto's first venture of unknown waters, their own design.

Yes, the Fashion is a copy of the Helix. I'm sorry, what engine is the E-Charm a copy of. It can't be a GY6. Which, according to all informed sources is a fully Chinese motor.

The bottom line is there are too many Chinese copies out there now coming into the USA that are cheap Chinese scooters for 1/2 the price doesn't take a brain surgeon to see that and they have never been able to measure up to the big boy scooters even if they are a touch less than they are.

Yes, quite true. While I'm riding a Helix copy. At least it has a good reputation. Pity the poor guys riding Reflex copies with copies of Linhai Yamaha motors. I have a copy of a Japanese built engine. Poor Linhai clone owners are riding with copies of Chinese built engines.

Yes, Victory is a great engine. Over head cams, four valves per cylinder and a solid unit construction motor. So much better than another poor quality V-Twin sold to far too many people.

Besides? What would you do as a company? Keep selling scooters in a market that only sells one-tenth as many units as bikes or go after the real money and sell motorcycles, along with a few scooters, like the big boys. If you want to see companies that will soon perish look no further than SYM and Kymco. What? One bike in each of their lineups. Now that's a quick way to go under.

Oh, and if they're going to fail they'll be doing it with a better bike than anything you can buy online.
cyclenews.coverleaf.com/cyclenews/20120522#pg83

Yes, the Fashion is a copy of the Helix. I'm sorry, what engine is the E-Charm a copy of. It can't be a GY6. Which, according to all informed sources is a fully Chinese motor.


You some how left out the V3 and V5 engines. You also ignored the statement of truth by Dave himself in his Jetmax review that for the very first time Cfmoto had ventured into new territory and built their own engine design.

E-Charm changed horizontal GY-6 the B series like BMs so you get stuck buying their high priced stuff. Variator bigger, piston head different pattern and such it's even timed just like the typical GY-6, look at the 241 page E-Charm service manual good pictures of the engine and oh yea got a CVT cover with CfMoto on it. Water cooled head but basic design GY-6 real creative.

Pity the poor guys riding Reflex copies with copies of Linhai Yamaha motors. I have a copy of a Japanese built engine. Poor Linhai clone owners are riding with copies of Chinese built engines.

Both built by China but the difference is you're made to believe your's is better and yet built cheap too that's why many like you wait for them to show up either nearly worn out or tore up on Craiglist. I bought my copy for a third of what the Fashion costs and got over 10k on it to prove it and I'll put it up against any Fashion that wants to come out here and give it the same punishment I've gave my linhai.

Yes, Victory is a great engine. Over head cams, four valves per cylinder and a solid unit construction motor. So much better than another poor quality V-Twin sold to far too many people.

Poor quality "V" engine?

.motorcycle.com/gallery/gallery.php/v/main/reviews/victory-2009-model-preview/2009_Victory_Motorcycles_106_Engine.jpg.html" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">.motorcycle.com/gallery/gallery.php/v/main/reviews/victory-2009-model-preview/2009_Victory_Motorcycles_106_Engine.jpg.html

Look familiar?

.factoryfat.com/images/HD%20twin96.jpg" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">.factoryfat.com/images/HD%20twin96.jpg

Maybe they should have called them Varley?

JR

[prodigit]

Maybe you're thinking like getting a good cycle, with warranty and all,
but here's how I see it:

Pay $5-6k for a good bike, that will last you a good 5 years and still sells for 2,5k,
or pay $1,2k for a Chinese bike, that will fall apart after 4 years, and buy another one after 4 years?
Conclusion:
With one, you just have learned how to drive,
with the other you had 2 bikes, money in reserve, and you actually learned something about bikes. You basically made it into a hobby.

Give me a cheap chinese scoot anytime over a more expensive us model!
It allows me to have some reserve on money for the first 2 years to work with, and with some care, even chinese scoots last a long time!

[kz1000st]

Poor quality "V" engine?

.motorcycle.com/gallery/galler....Engine.jpg.html" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">.motorcycle.com/gallery/galler....Engine.jpg.html

Look familiar?

.factoryfat.com/images/HD%20twin96.jpg" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">.factoryfat.com/images/HD%20twin96.jpg

Sorry Jack but to those of us who know what a Victory engine actually looks like it's easy to see the photo of the Victory was doctored. You see the Victory isn't a quaking replica of an Brough Superior or even a 1936 Harley JL. It's a unit construction (that's where the engine and transmission are cast as one) not an antique separate crank and transmission like Milwaukee sells every year. Lord PT Barnum was right. I don't know what kind of punishment you think you've done but my bike has been used on interstates into and through New York City to my house when I bought it. This week I took it into Binghamton on I-86, no problem. As you know Rich uses his in Alabama heat on interstates all the time and his is thriving. So that's two bikes from a "Dying"
manufacturer doing just fine.

I don't have to justify what engines the V-5 and Fashion use anymore than you and the copy of a Linhai in yours. Also since you just admitted that the engine in an E-Charm is totally different than the GY6 in my Eagle how is it a copy? As an aside Harleys have a 45 degree V, the Victory has 50 degrees. Vastly superior in terms of cooling, which as you know is the Achilles Heel of every Harley.

No comment on how an international journalist liked the CF Moto 650. When did you last drag a set of pegs or do 105 mph?

Oh, and while you've dwelled on Dave Harrington noting how the Jetmax isn't a copy don't forget that he also raved at how well it worked on an interstate. I forget, how did your bike perform on the interstates between home and Texas? Hopefully as well as mine.

[roboscoot]

sorry to hear of the demise of cf moto...at least here in the usa....however, i have been around long enough to know....never say never......manufacturers re -surface under new brands/backers.....clones clone the clones ........and the dna lives on.....

perhaps the stories we heae on nightly business reports re how unfair the Chinese are re competition/trade and manipulation of the currency are true.....

recall hyosung.( though south korean)....who had a nice techno-advanced fleet of scooters......for the price point.....last i heard they are also withdrawing from the usa scooter scene...poor/thin dealer network with little support....

[JR]

Aug 19, 2012 18:08:00 GMT -6 kz1000st said:

Poor quality "V" engine?

.motorcycle.com/gallery/galler....Engine.jpg.html" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">.motorcycle.com/gallery/galler....Engine.jpg.html

Look familiar?

.factoryfat.com/images/HD%20twin96.jpg" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">.factoryfat.com/images/HD%20twin96.jpg

Sorry Jack but to those of us who know what a Victory engine actually looks like it's easy to see the photo of the Victory was doctored. You see the Victory isn't a quaking replica of an Brough Superior or even a 1936 Harley JL. It's a unit construction (that's where the engine and transmission are cast as one) not an antique separate crank and transmission like Milwaukee sells every year. Lord PT Barnum was right. I don't know what kind of punishment you think you've done but my bike has been used on interstates into and through New York City to my house when I bought it. This week I took it into Binghamton on I-86, no problem. As you know Rich uses his in Alabama heat on interstates all the time and his is thriving. So that's two bikes from a "Dying"
manufacturer doing just fine.

I don't have to justify what engines the V-5 and Fashion use anymore than you and the copy of a Linhai in yours. Also since you just admitted that the engine in an E-Charm is totally different than the GY6 in my Eagle how is it a copy? As an aside Harleys have a 45 degree V, the Victory has 50 degrees. Vastly superior in terms of cooling, which as you know is the Achilles Heel of every Harley.

No comment on how an international journalist liked the CF Moto 650. When did you last drag a set of pegs or do 105 mph?

Oh, and while you've dwelled on Dave Harrington noting how the Jetmax isn't a copy don't forget that he also raved at how well it worked on an interstate. I forget, how did your bike perform on the interstates between home and Texas? Hopefully as well as mine.

I don't ride a scooter on an interstate and anyone who does is just asking for trouble could end up with a busted head or dead, doesn't matter they weren't made for the interstate. I have put my scooter on the interstate but only out of no choice, it was made for semis and fast moving vehicles. If I want to go somewhere in a hurry and need to use the intersate I go in a vehicle made for the interstate. Myself I would rather travel a little state highway and look at things and enjoy the ride and not worry if I'm going to be blown off of the road by a semi.

And oh yes you know what kind of riding I do not ride flat and easy interstate but mountains and it's been to Dallas and back now 5 times for a total of 4000 miles last time was last June and in the Dallas heat from red light to red light at 106F and remember it's a scooter, a linahai copy that's not supposed to perform as well as the highly engineered over priced Cfmoto.

Also KZ I never have figured out why you want to always compare apples to oranges on scooters to motorcycles? Scooter = apple, motorcycle = orange,

Don't know how a Victory and a Harley have anything to do with a scooter?

And as far as Rich? Yea he rides some when it's not too hot or raining or he doesn't feel so well and BTW just FYI he doesn't even open his office 5 days a week like the rest of the world and oh yes he still rides that motorcycle and we all know of the geniuos on one scooter he just recently tore down to the Alabama heat. Of course it didn't help any that he removed all the cooling either? Wonder what would happen to a moto if you removed the water? Get the picture? He also lives in the Alabama flatlands and if he wants to ride in the hills he goes elsewhere, I live in the south and been to every single state in the south many times so you can't tell me anything about the heat and terrain. Was in Alabama two years ago, have a lot of friends there.

Also NY city if it's 90F it's considered a heat wave. Got a good friend on this forum just like you and talk to him on a regular basis and he's always tell me how hot he is at 90F. We are a high today of 87F first day under 90F in 14 weeks. I've went to bed at night and the temp was still at 85F or hotter. We have had 24 days here so far of 100F plus and my last ride 3 weeks ago before the Doctor put my foot in a cast when I rode into Perryville it was 107F at 3:00 p.m and 110F when I left one hour later. I also had my grandson on back so I was two up. Dallas was even too hot for me this year because they have set 6 records on heat so far this year. Also in that trip to Dallas last year I stopped twice to get gas and a drink of water and ran it hard for 408 miles one way because my grandson was about to be born. It wasn't at 55 mph either. Again these cheap clones are not supposed to take that kind of punishment remember?

Bring that Fashion here at the bottom of old Petit Jean mountain and we'll start up at the same time, in fact I'll even give you a 100 yard head start and we'll climb that 900ft rise from the bottom in 1.5 miles and we'll see who gets to the top first. Show me that it'll make 408 mile trips in 100F plus heat and even show me that you can make a trip like that yourself, I was 65 when I did it. I got the pictures to prove it. If you're going to compare a Moto to what I ride then ride where I ride and don't look for a person elsewhere that is 10 years younger and rides when the conditions just suit them.

The last time I rode my scooter to Dallas due to the circumstances I rode it because I had to and wasn't late either again it's a clone of a clone and she didn't let me down.

Also I would think 650cc would do 105 mph, whats so grand about that?

I also read Daves review and how he commmented on the cheap plastics and look just like the cheap Chinese scooters too. Seems you only want to talk about speed and how much better they are? Man they've rubbed off on you well? How long have you rode yours for a honest review? How many 100F days have you pushed it 65 mph plus for hundreds of miles?

You seem to overlook his final conclusion? Will never stack up to the big boys as far as quality. Also kind of justifies the thought of high priced cheap Chinses scooter.

Doctored picture? All I did was google Victory V twin engine? here here is the results click on any one you want?

.bing.com/images/search?q=pictures+of+victory+v+twin+engine&qpvt=pictures+of+victory+v+twin+engine&FORM=IGRE" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">.bing.com/images/search?q=pictures+of+victory+v+twin+engine&qpvt=pictures+of+victory+v+twin+engine&FORM=IGRE

Did the exact same thing on Harley. Didn't argue that Victory has done anything one way or another, just simply said they were both V twin engines.

I wouldn't know how good a Victory is one way or another? They look good, got a decent price, and are appealing if you like a Harley look alike?

When they are still being made after 109 years of being in business we can say they did something right that's for sure.

JR