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Post by ellpee on Dec 29, 2013 17:56:46 GMT -6
Just finished searching for and reading a bunch of threads about LED bulbs, and where headlights were mentioned at all it was to say "there ain't no such animal." But some of the threads were on the old side, so -- is that still the case? At some point I might want to put LED headlights in my 2011 Roketa.
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Post by ellpee on Dec 29, 2013 14:30:29 GMT -6
You might check with your local John Laws and see if the running lights are enough to satisfy the letter of the law. When mine had the original incandescent bulbs they weren't all that bright, but the LEDs I put in made them considerably brighter and more noticeable, even in daylight. But on the other hand, if you're not having charging problems, why bother?
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Post by ellpee on Dec 28, 2013 17:58:59 GMT -6
I have a sticker on the back of my Roketa trunk that is the standard Harley-Davidson logo, except if you read it close enough is says "Hardly Davidson"! Haven't gotten my butt kicked yet, but there's always tomorrow. When I attempted to take off the rear fenders so I could work on the R/R, as I recall there were three bolts involved up in the rack/trunk area, but that was some time ago. I got both fenders very loose, but they were still hooked together by something at the top under where the rack sits, AND it became obvious I'd also need to disconnect and remove the entire rear light module, so I just pulled both still-connected fenders up and back as much as I could. That was enough to let me get at the R/R and CDI. (As part of that job I cut and extended the wires enough to relocate the R/R to the under-seat compartment.) Not sure what you mean by "upper side panels." On my 2011 the two rear fenders are in effect the upper side panels for the rear half of the scooter. Then there are two narrow plastic panels underneath the "running boards," and the big plastic cowling that covers the entire front of the scoot. There are also a couple smaller plastic bits and pieces, one by the license plate, one over the windshield bolts, etc. Of all that, the only larger plastics I've COMPLETELY removed are the two narrow panels. The rear fenders and front cowling, got them loose but not completely off. Attachments:Hardly-Davidson.doc (71 KB)
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Post by ellpee on Dec 27, 2013 11:45:11 GMT -6
If nothing at all on key turn, start with the 20-amp (?) in-line fuse on the smaller red wire off the positive battery terminal. Bitter experience tells me they can look good and still be bad, especially if they are OEM ChinaCheapo's.
After that, if you do have that fusebox in Alley's picture, it too is ChinaCheapo, and the little tabs the fuses fit into tend to slide down out of position. One of the many wires going INTO that fusebox brings 12v back from the ignition switch, and the fusebox then distributes it to all the different places it needs to go. If the fuse for that primary wire is bad, or not well connected, no juice will be getting through to anything. With key on, you can also pull all the fuses and check for 12v on the "in" side of each slot (three should have voltage, one won't unless the engine is running).
If the in-line fuse was okay, and no juice at all is getting to the fusebox, start suspecting your ignition switch or its connections.
I highly recommend replacing that fusebox entirely, although it's a bit tedious snipping and re-connecting all those wires. Also takes attention to detail, keeping very close track of which wire goes where (Labeling them is a smart move).
OhMyGawd, listen to me -- starting to sound like I know what I'm doing on some subjects! Shows you the value of a year at Scooter U!
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Post by ellpee on Dec 27, 2013 11:30:09 GMT -6
Bought on/off switch, about to take the plunge, and from my YY250T wiring diagram, which for the most part has proven reliable, it LOOKS to me like the white wire off the left handlebar switch feeds the low-beam headlights. If so, interrupting that one with an on/off switch would be a ton easier than removing all the front plastic to get at the back of the headlights. I'm attaching a picture of that portion of the diagram, and from anybody who speaks good electric, would appreciate feedback on (1) will that do what I want, and (2) how will it affect the HIGH-beam functioning if I click on the high beams or hit the high-beam flasher switch? Saturday evening: nobody responded to the above, so since I'm planning to replace the entire left handlebar switch assembly anyway, I figured what do I have to lose? Pulled handlebar plastic, slit open the black plastic sleeve around those nine wires, found the white one, cut it, and poof, no more low beam headlights. Installed and wired in my dashboard on/off switch, it turns the low beams on and off as intended, and the high beams, both steady and flash, work normally. And the GREAT news is, with engine running the dashboard voltmeter now reads a steady 13.5v or better, almost up to 14v. Ran around the neighborhood a bit trying to get it hot enough for the fan to kick in, but it was quite cool and that never happened. We have some warmer afternoons coming up this next week, so will re-check then, but it looks very much as if taking the headlights off line has fixed my wimpy charging problems. Of course at night when I would need to turn them on, the problem will still be there, but I really don't plan to ever do any night riding except in a dire emergency. If the day comes when I absolutely have to open up the front end, and therefore have access to the back of the headlights, I might want to investigate really bright LEDs if there is such a thing, but for now, I'm basking in what looks like final success. Attachments:
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Post by ellpee on Dec 27, 2013 9:57:30 GMT -6
Yeah, despite all the advice about a full PDI on Day 1 I've not done that, piecemealing it as problems arise. When I did attempt to remove plastics, more often than not a point arose where the piece was loose but wouldn't come completely off without what struck me as excessive, might-break-something force. I'm tempted, maybe in spring just before I'm going to put the Roketa to bed for the summer anyway, to suck it up, pull the seat and all plastic, and give it a 100% going over. One thing I would definitely do at that point is find ways to modify the whole wiring harness situation so that most, if not all, of the darn plugs could henceforth be reached WITHOUT pulling plastic. Fan replacement: plug is inaccessible, have to pull plastic. Radiator thermal switch, plug is inaccessible, have to pull plastic. R/R and CDI, inaccessible, have to pull plastic. Headlights, inaccessible, have to pull plastic. Handlebar switches, inaccessible, have to pull plastic. Dashboard gauges, inaccessible, have to pull plastic. GRRRRRRRRR!!!
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Post by ellpee on Dec 26, 2013 9:08:35 GMT -6
One of the three "outbound" wires on the R/R sends charging power to the relay and then on to the battery, right? (On the wiring diagram it looks like it's the red one.) What's a "good" reading for that wire? Presumably at least 12v, but I would guess more than that ... ?
Will also do the check on the thermoswitch (Drat, have to remove that radiator shroud again!) and the battery ground. The ground is probably good though, as for my first 2500 miles or so I didn't have this problem; it has only popped up in the last 500 miles or so. That makes me lean more in the direction of a thermoswitch gone or going bad.
Stay tuned, more news later.
Two hours later: Fired up the scoot and checked what's going on at the relay. on the "in" side, about 13.1-13.2 coming from the R/R at idle, up to 13.5-13.6 at medium RPM. On the "out" side, roughly the same, maybe a 10th less. So no significant loss there; more would make me happer, but I guess anything significantly north of 12 is good news. Fan came on while I was testing, as usual dashboard voltmeter dropped below 12 at that point. Next stop, thermoswitch, I guess. Hope I can get at it without too much trouble. Will jumper it, bypassing the switch entirely, and see what the dash voltmeter says when the fan is/isn't running.
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Post by ellpee on Dec 25, 2013 22:01:53 GMT -6
... I've seen no mention of going through the fuse box wires and connections? ...Secondly folks that have worked on this system will all tell you that the blocking diode is a source of voltage/charge loss, simple to replace with a relay. ... JR OEM fusebox has been entirely replaced (with one from Autozone, if I recall correctly), and I feel pretty confident about all the connections there. Also replaced the diode with a relay at the same time. (You may or may not remember I relocated the fusebox, relay, and R/R to a home-made rack under the seat for easier access.) So those two things are not likely to be the source of my problems. HOWEVER, despite the fact that I replaced the allegedly juice-guzzling OEM fan with a 3-amper, when I think about it, the voltage drop STILL clearly occurs when the fan kicks in, so simple logic (only kind I'm good at) suggests that SOMETHING in that fan circuit is the culprit. Hard to imagine, since it's about as simple as they come: battery+ --> ignition switch --> fusebox --> coolant temp sensor --> fan --> ground. No fancy electronics involved -- well, maybe the thermistor -- so what could possibly go wrong to cause such a voltage drop? Something, clearly, but darned if I can figure out what it might be. I probably will still go ahead with the headlight on/off switch idea, but I can't get it out of my head that somehow the fan has to be what's hosing me over. |
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Post by ellpee on Dec 24, 2013 16:54:20 GMT -6
Latest update on charging issue: put all the plastic back on and went for a spin. New <3 amp fan, LEDs in running lights and tail/brake lights. (LEDs for turn signals still coming, but those are only a factor when turned on, which they never were during this run.) Sorry to report, no apparent difference in charging situation. Up to almost 13v at first, steady around 12.5v enroute UNTIL THE FAN KICKED ON, then slightly below 12v. Back home, engine off, about 11v after a ~90-minute ride with 3-4 stops along the way. So, other than putting in the turn signal LEDs when they arrive, only other thing I can think to do is that on/off switch for the headlights, so they aren't drawing a continuous 5-6 amps the whole time the key is on. Really frustrating.  MUSINGS ON CHRISTMAS DAY: peeking under the front plastics, I see three wires going to each headlight socket -- green, white, and blue. If my YY250T wiring diagram can be trusted, the green provides the ground connection. Seems to me, therefore, that the simplest solution for an on/off switch would be to cut the two green wires and route them through a dash-mounted switch to an appropriate frame connection. Electricians out there, am I thinking straight? |
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Post by ellpee on Dec 24, 2013 13:50:23 GMT -6
Having a spare with the acid not yet in is certainly an option; of course once disaster strikes and you have to put in the acid, the clock starts ticking as far as battery life is concerned. In addition, from what I've read, when you first put the acid in the battery's not going to be up to full performance. In my situation, where I bought it/filled it/cranked, it did have enough oomph to get the job done, but as soon as I got home I put it on the regular charger (not the tender) until it showed full. One place I read says you should in fact repeat that several times with a new battery, i.e., charge it fully, run it down a bit, charge it fully again, etc., until you've done it 3-4 times.
Batteries Plus says the weaker battery will serve as a "bottleneck" if you connect two in parallel, so you'll only get as much juice through to the starter circuit as the weaker battery will carry. I'll probably get other opinions, but for now that suggests if #1 craps out, totally removing it and installing #2 is the way to go.
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Post by ellpee on Dec 24, 2013 8:58:45 GMT -6
Might try briefly jumpering across the poles of the starter relay. If it cranks then, suspect a problem with the ignition switch or the connections from battery --> ignition switch --> starter relay.
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Post by ellpee on Dec 23, 2013 22:02:15 GMT -6
Will have to check on that; if so, swapping the two will have to be my solution. In my simple mind, if one is at 3 and the other at 9, even assuming they "level out" at 6+6, I'll still have 12Ah to work with. But I'm no electrician. Time to ask Batteries Plus, I guess.
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Post by ellpee on Dec 23, 2013 15:45:47 GMT -6
My situation is, I only bought the second 9Ah when the original crapped out right in front of the auto parts store. Otherwise, I intended to upgrade to a 14Ah or better only when the original died, or when I found that all my other dinking around with the charging system hadn't fixed my problem. But now that I have the second 9Ah, keeping it fully charged in the trunk gives me warm fuzzy feelings until I start seeing better numbers on the ol' voltmeter. I have the necessary cable to just plug it into the primary battery the same way I do the battery tender, which in effect gives me 18Ah when they're both fully charged. In my case, of course, the more likely scenario is, battery #1 will be down well below 9Ah so with battery #2 in parallel I may have a combined 12Ah or so.
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Post by ellpee on Dec 23, 2013 8:41:03 GMT -6
Since I'm not too far from replacing the left switch assembly, I'm wondering if cutting into one of the nine wires there would serve to turn the headlights on and off. That switch has the hi and lo settings, and also the hi beam flasher switch, so it seems plausible that one of those wires might do the trick. Ah, but which one? If that turns out to be an option it would certainly be convenient, as I could then easily mount the actual switch on the left dash without the need to mess around too much underneath the front plastic.
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Post by ellpee on Dec 22, 2013 21:50:35 GMT -6
All things being equal, 12Ah is certainly going to be better than 9Ah, no matter what else. The price for that 12Ah seems suspiciously low, though, so buyer beware -- you get what you pay for, as the saying goes.
As to the headlights, one calculator I found says a 35w bulb draws about 3 amps, so if you have two I guess that's 6 amps, yes, a considerable drain on a 9Ah battery along with everything else it's supporting. Still hoping somebody will chime in with where in the circuit I should cut in to put an on/off switch on my headlights, but so far no volunteers with that wisdom. If I don't get any adult supervision and guidance in that regard, I guess I'll just find a way to cut into the + side of both headlamps and put in an on/off switch. (That's assuming everything else I'm doing doesn't bring the enroute charging rate up to at least 13+).
You seem to have a lot more "add-ons" in mind than I do, so yeah, all the battery power you can get and all the light power you can save is probably a good way to go. Me, I just want the sucker to start every time and not poop out on me halfway through a 100-mile tour.
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