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Post by bobf on Sept 30, 2015 14:31:40 GMT -6
I was just running the scoot engine to see how the valves sounded. Seemed OK so I decided to go around the block for a test ride. On the return to my drive I notice that it must have boiled over as there was some green water at the drive exit and into the street. I rode back to the garage and again noticed that it was starting to eject green water.
I am assuming that it might be a stuck thermostat. Tomorrow I will take off the covers once again and look for the problem. If nothing else shows up then I remove the thermostat and check it out. At the same time I will drain the system entirely and prepare some new mix to keep the coolant company, It looks pretty bad right now. Sort of a muddy looking green. Not fresh and bright green water.
Just got all the covers back on after the carb change and again after the seat lock problem. So here we go again. Might just as well do the entire check out and new coolant with thermostat, and the oil change and grease checks and tire exams and any hose or tubing changes.
I believe that this time it will end up a very stripped down scoot. Trunk, seat, rear items, side panels as before but now also the foot rests,the lower side panels under the foot rests and then the two front panels loosened near the foot rest areas, just to be able to get the rubber floor stuff out. Then maybe I will be able to check the radiator, hoses, coolant reservoir, gas tank and hoses.
I don't think I need to take off the windshield and front panels at this time. Major strip down, so I might as well do the servicing at the same time.
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Post by bobf on Oct 1, 2015 11:10:35 GMT -6
OK, this morning I have stripped the covers and removed the black plastic cover over the water overflow and gas tank. I think I see what should be the thermostat for the radiator. I think I can remove it without further tear down or removal of the radiator. It is different from an auto type so where would I find one to replace this one.
Correction: I have been looking over my scooter and have not found a thermostat. Is there such a thing? I see the temperature sensor in the lower corner of the radiator. That confused me. Would there be a thermostat on the engine itself.
Just not sure why the engine backed up and boiled over.
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Post by cyborg on Oct 1, 2015 14:02:28 GMT -6
i've seen a few cases with scooters that the radiator gets semi plugged and they run hot also fan switches going bad and not turning on the fans,,,also if they aren't filled correctly they can be problematic
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Post by ellpee on Oct 1, 2015 15:07:18 GMT -6
That sensor on the radiator, probably lower right corner, turns the fan on and off as required. Do you know if your fan turns on when the temperature gauge gets to a certain point? If not, that sensor should be your first suspect, and they're pretty easy to find on the Internet. HOWEVER, it could also just be a bad wire connection somewhere in that circuit, so check those too.
If the fan indeed turns on when it should, then the thermostat would be the next suspect, and yes, there is one on my two scooters and on most I've read about here. Not sure where, but generally I think it'd be in or near the cylinder head and there should be some hoses there feeding coolant in and out. I know that's kinda vague, hope others can tell you more.
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Post by bobf on Oct 1, 2015 17:19:46 GMT -6
Cyborg and ellpee, thanks to both. Tomorrow I will push the uncovered scoot out into the gravel yard I have so I don't make a big mess in the garage. I intend to flush out the lines and radiator with clear water.
I have also noted, on the bottom right side of the engine a cast hose ending about 3" dia with 4 screws attaching it to the engine. Hopeful thinking about this being what I am wanting to check. Plus it will be a good place to really make sure the engine gets drains as I flush all lines. If nothing else, I will have a fresh and clean radiator and engine.
Yes, the fan usually comes on while warming up from a cold start. I will likely need to buy or make a new gasket for that casting to engine location. If I can't buy one I have materials here for making one.
Following hoses is how I found this round looking hose connection.
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Post by ellpee on Oct 1, 2015 18:17:38 GMT -6
A 3" casting? Don't know from nothin', but guessing that might be where your water pump lives. If so, yes, that would be suspect #3.
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Post by bobf on Oct 2, 2015 9:10:18 GMT -6
ellpee, you were right, it is the water pump. Likely only the temp sensor and fan but no thermostat.
Back to work now at flushing and draining.
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Post by ellpee on Oct 2, 2015 12:04:48 GMT -6
I'd be surprised if there were no thermostat. Maybe others here will know.
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Post by bobf on Oct 2, 2015 19:56:20 GMT -6
I had to leave the cleaning this afternoon as I had to take the wife to doctors tests.
Plenty of rusty water came out yesterday. I had the pump covering off and also the overflow hose was disconnected so all that got drained and flushed. I was considering reverse flushing but not sure how to do that. I will chase the hoses again tomorrow before I put the pump cover back on. Maybe I could put the hose end into that hose and see how it does. I did most of my flushing down through the radiator cap and out by the water pump. Maybe that is the best way to do it.
I am concerned about no thermostat like cars do have. Just not finding any place for it to be that is obvious. Maybe I should try to find a scooter place, but I don't think there are any here where I live.
It would be nice if someone in the know would come on and say yes or no to thermostat and if yes, where would it be.
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Post by ellpee on Oct 3, 2015 7:57:09 GMT -6
bobf, just google Roketa thermostat and you'll get all kinds of hits, lots of them with pix.
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Post by bobf on Oct 3, 2015 11:05:20 GMT -6
Thanks ellpee, just did that and found lots of photos but none showing me or my scoot where it might be. It has to be in the water path and did not find one. Waiting for the engine to cool down now as it did get very hot and was blowing out antifreeze. One thing I noticed was that the fan was not turning when I put the spot light on it. I always heard the motor start before but not this time. Maybe it could be the problem. So now I need to check the heat sensor and the fan. Also check the connectors and fuses. An entire new investigation to follow up on.
Also now have a leak where the water pump cover is. I was afraid of this but will look into that later too. Four bolts and the top one did not require much force to remove it and now it will not tighten. I think I can dope the gasket on both sides and stop the leak. I have some automotive RTV that should do the job. If not then I need to buy something better.
Lots of fun, learning a lot. Wish we had a scooter shop here.
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Post by bobf on Oct 3, 2015 14:50:08 GMT -6
OK ellpee and others there is a nice photo by alleyoop posted on Feb 19 2014.
Reply #4 posted Feb 10 2014 at 10:49am
I did follow that photo and found what I thought was too small for a thermostat before the photo.
I tried to copy the link but apparently I can not do that. So just look back to the listing and you will see it yourself. It is on the right side tucked in between the carb and cylinder head area. Looks real congested but will try to open it and check the thermostat.
Then too, I will need to check the temp sensor and fan, I thought they were working but this morning I got disappointed at what I saw not happening. Maybe check them first as they are more open for working on.
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Post by ellpee on Oct 3, 2015 16:39:14 GMT -6
bobf, if it turns out your fan is bad (as opposed to the electrical connections or the sensor on the radiator), I have one you can have for free. When I was having charging problems I replaced mine with a lower amp draw model per Alley's recommendation, but it made no difference, so I'm thing my OEM fan, currently in a box in the garage, is fine. Since you also have an Oregon R/R on your scooter, it shouldn't create any charging problems. Let me know if that turns out to be your problem.
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Post by bobf on Oct 3, 2015 17:27:53 GMT -6
OK ellpee, will keep this in mind. Are you back into Tucson yet. If I need it I can drive down to meet you some day..
Just how do we work on the radiator and fan. Seems pretty crowded in that area. The sensor should be pretty easy to check out.
I have a multi meter and another smaller meter but not sure how to use either to test that temperature sensor, which is on the open face of the radiator. Are you an electrical person? I am mostly mechanical. I was thinking on the temp sensor that I could just attach to the two electrical connectors and see if there is continuity. If so, then it is good. Or maybe I should see some resistance when reading the two connectors.
How do I test the fan for operational use. Can I just find the electrical connection and then using the battery, send some 12vdc thru the fan motor. If it does not run then it is the fan for sure?
I bought some special liquid gasket material for the water pump, but first I will have to try to fix that one hole that seems to be stripped. Several different ways to go. Some are cheap and may not work. Others are definitely going to work but not very cheap. I can go over sized bolts (low cost) and may not work or use inserts (high cost) pretty sure they will work. Basic tool kit and some inserts is about $40.
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Post by ellpee on Oct 4, 2015 8:52:31 GMT -6
To test the fan, disconnect it from the feed that comes from the temperature sensor, then feed 12v into one side of its connector and ground the other side. If it runs, it's good.
To test the sensor, first disconnect the feed that comes from somewhere upstream, and test that feed to see if there is 12v coming INTO the sensor, with key on of course.
If both of those test OK, testing the sensor is trickier, because it only lets current through to the fan when it gets hot -- 167 degrees or more, I think I've read here somewhere. So you're stuck with having to remove it from the radiator, feed 12v into one side, hook your tester to the other side, grounding it somewhere, and then use tongs or something to dip it in a pot of hot water. Assuming the water is hot enough, 12v should make it through to the other side. Problem there, of course, is that removing the sensor will drain some of your coolant. If you're quick enough, you can probably use a rubber stopper to plug the hole temporarily so you don't lose too much.
Assuming you find the first two things above are okay, and can find the sensor somewhere for small money, you may want to just replace it and avoid a bunch of testing.
As to getting at the radiator and fan, yes, it's difficult. working from under the front plastic, you have to remove a shroud and at least loosen some other things. Unless somebody else here knows an easier way.
Yes, I'm back in Tucson, and if it turns out you need the fan, maybe I can ride the scoot up to Picacho Peak so as to meet you halfway.
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