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Post by bobf on Oct 4, 2015 10:49:44 GMT -6
Thanks ellpee. Will consider what you have just posted. No wonder you were so sure that I had a thermostat as it was you that wanted photo's a year or so back.
Right now I have no coolant in as I took the water pump out to get ready to do something with those stripped threads. I just got done doing a simulation of using my drill in that location for drilling and inserting threads. It is low enough so I can do that. I just had to bend a flap up that is screwed down with the bolt in there.
I had to take all the covers off again, including the under seat covers, so I could really follow the plumbing and find that part pointed out in the photo's by Alleyoop. Really never expected something as small as that. My mind was on auto motive size thermostat. I will be busy this week with Wed, Thur, Fri for doctors, dentist, wife's doctor. So not sure how well I will be doing. Will start with testing the fan and getting something to do for the water pump mounting hole.
Will let you know as I work along.
Quick test of fan.
Since no battery in scoot there is not much I can do but I did sit the battery on the stool beside the scoot and jumped from positive to one wire and negative to the other wire. Sure enough the fan came on and was blowing lots of air through the radiator. So for now I say thanks for the offer but it doesn't seem to be my problem.
For not wanting to tear into my thermostat yet, I will just see if I can order a new temp sensor and hope that is the problem. If not, then the thermostat will be the last I can think of.
I am beginning to think this scooter owns me, not the other way as it should be.
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Post by ellpee on Oct 4, 2015 11:38:56 GMT -6
OK, good, since all bets are off on my left-over fan -- I put 12v to it just now and it seems dead. Could swear it was fine when I took it off, maybe I did something to kill it. But if yours is good, moot.
As to the fan circuit in general, do that input-to-the-sensor thing first. My best recollection is that there is just one fuse that runs that, so it could be no juice getting to the sensor. Nothing in, nothing can come out.
Thermostat and water pump, rotsa ruck, as our Chinese friends might say. Never messed with either. But hey, wifey is Pri1 right now, keep yer focus.
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Post by bobf on Oct 4, 2015 11:57:17 GMT -6
Just in case, I just finished ordering a temp sensor. First I looked at was $22. Next one was $11, so I ordered it and it should be here Friday this week. I checked my fuses yesterday and all are good. On my scoot the rear fuse is for the fans.
Maybe someday I will be able to get on it an learn to ride again.
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Post by bobf on Oct 5, 2015 14:38:26 GMT -6
Recently this afternoon, I finally got the water pump cover back on and tightened down.
I put a Helicoil in the stripped thread hole. It took the screw and it torqued like normal this time. I also used the liquid gasket, painted it on the cover, mounted the gasket, then painted more liquid gasket on that serface and installed on engine.
It looks pretty good. Said it would set in about 10 minutes but coming Saturday when I install the new heat sensor it will be well set. Then I can see if it leaks as I test the new heat sensor.
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Post by bobf on Oct 9, 2015 10:50:08 GMT -6
Yesterday I got the temp sensor in the mail. Today I installed it on the engine. Now taking wife to the doctor. This afternoon I will likely fill radiator and run the engine to get rid of the bubbles and see if the fan does come on when the water is hot. Sure hope this fix is the one that really works.
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Post by cyborg on Oct 9, 2015 11:40:16 GMT -6
Good luck my man,,,should have it sorted now
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Post by bobf on Oct 9, 2015 14:14:28 GMT -6
Been in the garage running. It is pretty hot to touch but the fan still has not turned. Must be something other than the heat sensor.
I did a fuse check. OK. I direct connected the fan to the battery. Runs fine. I switched the wires at the temp sensor. Did not think side to side would make any difference and it did not.
Whether the thermostat was working or not the fan should be running.
My guess is a wire chase which means I take off the front panel too. Oh shucks.
Any ideas out there is scooter land?
Eelpee wrote up a temp tester routine a few days back so I may start with that then go to the wire by wire search.
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Post by cyborg on Oct 9, 2015 15:08:18 GMT -6
are both rad hoses getting hot? after it cools down ,,as a test,take your hot lead and hook it to one side of the temp sensor and run anther one to the fan make a ground lead anchor it and hook it up to the other side of the fan start it and the fan should come on when it gets hot
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Post by bobf on Oct 9, 2015 15:20:18 GMT -6
Just completed the temp sensor routine that ellpee put on this thread for me. I used my original sensor for this test.
Yes I do sense 12vdc on one side of the cable to the sensor, light blue wire. On the green wire I only get scrambled numbers that keep changing.
Then I rigged up the sensor with my battery and some cables through the device and my meter. I had a pot of water on the stove. As it was boiling I would stick the sensor into the water and kept the wires out of the water. It would not take long till the meter went from rambling to 12.68. I repeated this three or four times but each time I let it cool and wiped it dry. It did repeat so I now think my sensor was OK. Next part will begin tomorrow as it will be more covers off and chasing for something, just don't know what.
The fan works. The sensor tests OK and I assume the new sensor I put in is OK too, so I search for something. Just do not know what. Could it be the green or light blue wires? Somewhere in the harness is the problem. Maybe.
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Post by ellpee on Oct 9, 2015 16:24:04 GMT -6
Well, you appear to have checked all possibilities in the fan electrical circuit, so the thermostat is just about the only thing left, barring a really bad kink in a coolant hose somewhere.
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Post by bobf on Oct 9, 2015 17:00:02 GMT -6
Welcome back ellpee. Your ideas so far have been good.
Not sure the thermostat would cause the fan to not work. So I am thinking possibly the motor feed circuit or somewhere in the harness area between the sensor or the motor itself. The sensor seems to work. And the sensor is getting 12vdc so something should happen. Just need to find where and why and fix it.
So I need to trace the motor power cable back till I find the sensor cable and then follow it to the sensor. Between must be the problem. My feelings that will start tomorrow with the removal of the windshield and loosening of the front panels so I can follow the wires to the front and under the panel.
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Post by cruiser on Oct 10, 2015 0:09:18 GMT -6
In order for the fan sensor to work there must be water flowing through the radiator. One of three things could be preventing this from happening: 1. a clogged radiator 2. a thermostat which is not opening to allow hot water from the engine into the radiator 3. too much air in the system which is restricting the water flow.
Check the inlet and outlet hoses on the radiator after the engine is warmed up to see if they feel hot.
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Post by bobf on Oct 10, 2015 7:17:00 GMT -6
Thanks Cruiser. The radiator case, the hoses, were quite hot. I will double check the water level again today before moving to the front area. I had started and restarted he engine more than once during the day while testing the unit. I did the sensor test in a pot of boiling water on the stove, and it worked OK.
I remember putting in a voltmeter a while back and maybe how I attached it to wires is the problem. So that will be one place I will look today after I take off the windscreen and front panels.
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Post by ellpee on Oct 10, 2015 9:56:50 GMT -6
Yeah, it's odd. If 12v is coming in TO the sensor, and 12v is coming OUT of the sensor when the coolant gets hot enough, and the fan runs when it gets 12v FROM the sensor, very puzzling. Of course the overheat reading on your dashboard comes from an entirely different sensor, as you know. Only thing I can think of is that the thermostat isn't opening when it should, so the hot coolant can't actually flow back to the radiator and get cooled off, fan or no fan. (A kaputt water pump could also cause that, but you've already addressed that, as I recall.) I'm stuck, bobf, hope somebody else here has other ideas to offer. Cruiser's three sound like a good place to start.
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Post by bobf on Oct 10, 2015 10:17:15 GMT -6
Thanks ellpee. Right now the scoot is in the garage cooling down. I let it run for over 20 minutes. The hoses were hot, both of them, top from fill cap and bottom from engine. The radiator was blistering not. The outside part of the sensor was also blistering hot. This is the new sensor, not the one I tested yesterday.
Strange thing about the upper hose near the fill cap. It was just a bit warm when I first checked it. I opened the cap and it pushed coolant out so I closed the cap. Now the hose turned to very hot.
Maybe it is time to find the thermostat and do that too. Full course then. And I will test the newer sensor too. Just to make sure. I won't know what to order till I get it out. So maybe this afternoon I will do that. Kind of strange isn't it. I was once thinking the thermostat was the problem but have done everything else first. Any suggestions on where to order a thermostat for my engine.
The voltmeter wiring is still like I had it before. I could also do as you said and take the positive to the battery and negative to ground. I guess if the key shuts of the 12v flow then the meter will not work. Don't want the meter running when the scooter is off.
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