Turn Signals/Battery Problem By ellpee (Read 1,987 times)

[ellpee]

2011 Roketa MC-54B-250 (or is it MC-54-250B?).

A few days ago I posted that my turn signal switch was acting up -- not cancelling (left signals continued to blink or sometimes I could hear the relay clicking even though no lights were blinking).

I opened it up, cleaned and lubed it as well as I could, and for a couple days it seemed OK, but this morning the right signal wouldn't turn on at all. Opened it up again, cleaned/lubed/tightened screws, and got it to where left was OK/cancel OK/right OK only if I held the switch in the full right position.

Then I went on about a two-hour run, several stops along the way, started okay until the last one, when it wouldn't crank -- very weak battery judging by the sounds and the gauges. I asked a guy to give me a jump, and even hooked to his battery it wouldn't turn over, so I thanked him and pushed it over into a shady parking spot, intending to call my wife for a rescue. Lo and behold, I hit the starter once more in desperation and it started!

So something funky is going on electrically, and with all those factors in play I'm not all that sure what. I have it on the charger now, and as time permits I'm going to have to do a bunch of testing and figure it out.

But in the meantime here's a question for any electrical guru out there: I added a full cutoff switch in the battery circuit (red wire to ignition). If I cut off all battery power any time I stop, it seems to me that should keep the battery from draining while the scooter is not running, whether the problem is indeed a "leaking" turn signal switch or something else I haven't figured out yet. Am I correct about that? I'm looking for a way to be able to drive the scoot when necessary until I diagnose the underlying problem and fix it, without finding myself stranded somewhere with a dead battery.

Secondarily, if anybody has thoughts about what's up with the turn signals, let's hear them. Best price I've found for a new one is like $60, and since everything works except the turn signals I hate to replace the entire left unit.

[bhinch]

I had a problem with my scoot when the Regulator/Rectifier went south on me. Battery would not charge and I had no rear running lights. Your battery may not be charging up, so you need to check your battery voltage at the battery. I installed a volt meter to see what was going on with the charging system. When the R/R went away all it would show was battery voltage.
Purchased a new 6 wire R/R for the 250B Roketa and now I am up and scooting again. Life is good....

[richardthescooter3]

If you have a volt meter you can test the battery and also check to see if its charging, got mine at harbor freight for around 6.00.

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[ellpee]

I was out there a bit ago, after having the battery on the charger for several hours. Under no load whatsoever, battery started out just over 13 volts. Ignition switch on, dropped to about 12.9. With either turn signal flashing (have to hold the switch in BOTH positions now to keep it flashing), down to about 12.8 (12.75<-->12.85). Cancelled TS, no indication of any current "leakage." Started engine, ~12.8; revs up to 4000, no change -- still 12.8 -- didn't DROP, but didn't increase either. Shut it down, once again steady at about 12.85 or so, and no indication of any "leakage" as I watched it for a couple minutes. Planning a short run in a little bit, will see what the voltmeter says when (if?) I get back.

How much time/miles did you have on the scoot when your R/R went, bhinch? I got mine new the end of November and have about 2400 miles on it so far. If mine's going/gone bad, hope it's easy to get to! D8

[cruiser]

[replyingto=ellpee]ellpee[/replyingto][replyingto=ellpee]ellpee[/replyingto]Here is the location of the R/R (regulator/rectifier) on your scoot. It's the large heat sink thing. The smaller heat sink thing to the left is the blocking diode or relay.



These are just above the muffler and inside the fender. If your headlights came on for your night ride, it means that the R/R is working but maybe dying. If the R/R was dead, then the lights would not come on. Check the connector for the blocking diode for good contact and no signs of melting. Check the connectors on the R/R for the same thing.

R/R's have no definite lifespan. They can go at any time and sometimes they are no good right out of the box.

[justbuggin2]

DX and i would go through all the grounds checking that they are clean and tight some times the factory over crimps the ends connectors on the battery cables causing problems i would just go ahead and replace them it took care of alot of strange electrical problems for me

[bhinch]

My scoot is a 2008 Roketa MC250B Linhai (257) with 9300 miles and 4 1/2 yrs old. Purchased new in July of 2008. I ride it to work and am going to work now at 2:30 AM. My scoot ran well, but would not charge the battery, so the R/R was bad. First real prob with the scoot. Life is good.....

[ellpee]

Ran several errands yesterday evening, checking battery voltage at each stop. 12.8, then 12.7, then 12.35 when I got back home. On tender overnight, 12.93 right now. Long run to the other side of Tucson this morning, will be checking again. And this time I'm taking the tender along, so if it craps out somewhere I can maybe find an electrical outlet and git 'er going after 19-15 minutes. Almost motivates me to buy a backup battery and carry it along all the time.

Arggh, looks like no way to get at that R/R without pulling some plastic.

[ellpee]

So, the plot thickens. Made my morning run, about 40 miles; battery was at 12.93 at the start. Checked it along the way, voltage dropped a couple decimals at each stop, but it started all the way up to the last stop, about two miles from home. Had to get a jump there. Confirmed that I had NO headlights, NO taillights; headlight flash did work, also brake lights, presume both of those run off the battery when the engine is not running (or when the R/R is kaputt).

It would appear, therefore, that after only ~2500 miles the R/R has died (unless I find a loose/melted/otherwise bad connection). Not a good advertisement for Jonway/Roketa! But in any event that brings me to the next logical question. Without removing any plastic (yet), I peered up underneath and did not see anything that looked like cruiser's pic above. Could it be that's for the horizontal Linhai engine, or did I just not look hard enough? Mine has the vertical 244cc engine.

Ironically, at several stops along the way I saw outlets where I could have plugged in my battery tender for awhile, but when the battery finally got too weak at the last stop, not an outlet to be found far and wide.

UPDATE: Went out and looked again, and can indeed see the R/R tucked up under the right rear fender, roughly above the passenger footrest. Can't yet see the easiest way to get at it; wondering if taking the "floor" out of the under-seat compartment would give me enough room. As far as connections, as far as I can see there's some kind of plastic "black box" attached to the R/R, and a five-wire connector plugs into that black box. No obvious signs of melting or other damage to that connector. If there are any other wires that connect directly to the R/R, haven't been able to spot them yet.

[bhinch]

Which engine do you have? The 250/257 Yamaha ( Linhai )or the 244 Honda...the R/R will be different from my scoot. My R/R is a 6 wire and it requires taking off the RH side skirt and taken LH side skirt loose. But do not remove the LH.. the rear tail light plastic will have to be removed (two screws) and the trunk taken off, if you have one. I lifted the top plastic body and moved it to the side to gain access to the R/R. Not a real hard task, just be patient when moving the plastic around.

[bhinch]

The seat will have to be removed also. Remember when replacing the R/R, disconnect the battery. We don't want to short out the new R/R. I started my scoot up after replacing the R/R to make sure it worked before replacing the plastic. Life is good....

[ellpee]

I have the 244 engine. Since we're leaving for our summer digs over in New Mexico in two weeks, I'm tempted to just leave it for the fall and for now, limit myself to short trips when I know I have a full battery charge. That'll mean no headlights/running light/taillights, but since I don't ride at night anyway, don't think that's a show-stopper.

Does your R/R setup look like the one in cruiser's picture? Best I can tell from just peeking up from below, mine doesn't, quite. I'm pretty sure mine doesn't have that "blocking diode" in the location shown in his picture. Guess maybe I'll see what I can find on YouTube -- those videos have been a huge help with other things I've had to do.

MORE: just did some googling and learned that, before assuming the R/R is dead, I should locate that blocking diode and jumper it to see if the battery then gets charging voltage. If yes, R/R good/JD bad, and an alternative to replacing it with a like item is to replace it with a simple relay from Radio Shack or somewhere. Guess I'll see if I can find that particular widget and check it out; wouldn't want to invest too hastily in a new, possibly unneeded R/R.

AND MORE YET: With the help of lights, mirrors, and flexibility I didn't know I still possessed, I DID find what I think is the blocking diode nestled up there in the RR fender well; couldn't see any wires coming from it yet, though. Will have to try even harder so I can jumper it and see what happens.

[ellpee]

THE NEXT MORNING: Well, I couldn't resist chasing down this problem, whether I get it fixed before our departure or not.

Removed the plastic and seat (hard to get at those seat nuts!), found and jumped the blocking diode. As advertised, headlights went on. Started scoot, put voltmeter on battery, about 12.8 as I recall, revved the engine, no change. So if I have it right, the diode is okay and the problem is the R/R. Checked it externally and confirmed it has SIX wires, three yellow leading to one connector and red/green/black leading to another. No obvious problems with the wires or connectors. So now I guess it's time to do some googling and then check those six wires to see what's what. I know there are some threads here on that very subject, and I'm sure I'll find more elsewhere on line.

BTW, that black box I mentioned a couple posts ago, with a FIVE-wire connector plugged into it, is completely separate from the R/R, bunch of Chinese writing on it but nothing else. Just a sealed electronic gizmo with the five wires coming out of it and leading off toward the front of the scoot. On my scoot at least, it's held by a big rubber-band type holder right behind (inboard of, that is) the R/R. Just for my general education, anybody know what that is? Maybe that's the remote/alarm?

AN HOUR LATER: About that mystery black box, never mind -- found a picture elsewhere that says it's the CDI.

I read up on testing R/R and did the following:

Opened, examined all connectors, re-connected with a wee spritz of WD-40 in each case. No obvious problems found.

Started the scoot and volt-checked what was coming out of the R/R via the red wire. At idle, fluctuated between 4 and 6 volts, at higher RPM actually went DOWN and was pretty steady around 1.5 volts.

With scooter running, disconnected the connector with the three yellow wires from the stator and cross-checked them. In all three combinations, at idle about 18v, at higher RPMs went up gradually to 70v. (Didn't rev it beyond that point).

So, this humble sophomore is guessing it's time to buy and install a new R/R. Have I overlooked anything? (I do think I'll probably replace the blocking diode with a straight-up relay as well, but that's secondary.)

[bhinch]

Looks good to me..... bigandlittlescooterparts.com has the R/R....6 wire on Ebay. My scoot is actually running better with the new R/R and the battery is charging at 13.4 going down the hi-way, with everything on. Life is good.....

[ellpee]

R/R now on order, hope it's the right one, and gets here quick so I can put this problem to bed before we leave for the summer. Will run down to AutoZone or somewhere in a bit and see if I can find an appropriate 12v relay. If I understand it correctly, as soon as I install that the head/taillights should come on as soon as I turn the key, and will be drawing their juice from the battery (which, of course, gets replenished from the R/R as soon as I start the engine). Just have to remember to shut off the ignition switch every time, OR to use my added-on "total cutoff" switch any time I park it.

After the seat/plastic removal experience, I'm tempted to see if I can find a way to mount relay, R/R, and even the CDI somewhere more accessible for the inevitable next time.