Turn Signals/Battery Problem By ellpee (Read 1,989 times)

[cruiser]

The ignition switch has to have an always on hot wire so that when you turn it on things will work. The clock is connected to this wire which shows it is fused with a 20 amp fuse directly to the battery on my scoot's diagram.

It looks like you have a handle on things and we are looking forward to the first fire up with the new R/R.

[ellpee]

So, the new R/R arrived late this afternoon. I immediately hooked it up, cranked it up, and hooray, the newly installed voltmeter showed a definite difference as RPMs increased. So I shut it down, carefully extended all the wires by 18" or so, and installed it on my custom under-the-seat electronics rack (which I cobbled together from various odds'n'ends I had in my garage). Connected it all again, started and re-checked everything, and it looks like my Red Rocket(a) is back in business. Still have to put seat and plastic back on tomorrow morning and give it a road test, but I think that with tons of help from here I'm back in business. AND, I now have a voltmeter on my dashboard, no more nasty battery surprises 50 miles from home, AND my R/R, relay-in-lieu-of-blocking-diode, and US-quality fusebox are all neatly mounted in the otherwise rarely used under-seat compartment so I can tackle any future problems without removing a lot of plastic. Only concern is whether there will be a heat issue, but they have ample air circulation, and I can't imagine it gets any hotter under the seat than right down there by the engine and muffler. Wish me luck, y'all, and thanks for all your help.

UPDATE: put most of the plastic back on ( found a couple cracked tabs here and there, grrrrrrr...) and took it for a relatively short test run. On the road, voltmeter showed a pretty steady 13v, which I interpret as a sign that the RR/relay are indeed shooting juice to the battery/lights/accessories/ignition while enroute. Coming back home, turned key off and voltmeter only showed about 11v, which alarmed me; measuring at the battery moments later, though, I got a 12.5 or thereabouts. Engine-off voltmeter reading naturally varies depending on whether anything is drawing juice -- turn signals, high beams, whatever. But that initial 11v, with key off and nothing drawing juice that I can think of, raised my eyebrows. Not seeking guidance yet, want to do some more road testing, but if the above says "PROBLEM!!!!!" to anyone, by all means tell me about it. Under-seat mounting for R/R, by the way, seems okay so far; it gets quite warm to the touch, but by no means hot. Will be checking that at each stop for awhile until I feel good about it.

Update #2: second test run, about 10 miles, five stops along the way. Enroute, voltmeter showed anywhere between 12 and 13, never more than a needle width below 12. Back in the garage, it again showed 11 volts with the key on, but at the battery it showed 12.5 or so. Seems like a big difference, but what do I know? Biggest concern after second run, R/R mounted under the seat was quite hot -- not burn your fingers hot, but hot enough you wouldn't want to hold onto it any longer than necessary. How hot is "normal"? If it's going to overheat and die under the seat, or set my butt on fire, then I may have to mount it back where it was, or somewhere in that general area that's a bit more accessible. Thoughts/ideas/advice welcome, as always.

[cruiser]

I think you are overheating the R/R. The amount of heat you describe will only keep building up as you ride especially in warmer weather. The air under the seat does not circulate so the heat will keep building. (Nice to keep the buns warm during winter rides.)

[ellpee]

Darn. Was hoping that under-seat thing would work out. Will just keep an eye on it for the few days remaining before I put it to bed for the summer. Maybe I'll look for a Plan B (no, not the pill!) that mounts it close to where it was, but accessible without pulling plastic. If nothing else I do now have an extra 18" or so of wire to play with, after all. An appropriate metal bracket, bolted to where it USED TO be attached, but extending a little further to the rear, above the muffler, comes to mind. Will have to think about it. Son-in-law is a pretty good metalsmith, maybe I'll recruit him to help.

OR, maybe I could add a wee fan under the seat to carry away the heat -- saw some of those the other day at Pep Boys. Geez, this just gets crazier and crazier.

Any comments about the voltage readings? Not sure I understand why after a relatively short run the key-on/engine-off voltmeter reading should be 11v. As I wrote, measured at the battery it's above 12 so far, but what's up with that? Wait, wait, don't tell me: at the battery it shows full charge, at the voltmeter it shows that minus anything that's pulling current. Could it be I'm actually starting to understand this stuff? And could it be that lights/gauges/clock/fan pull enough to drop the voltmeter reading that much?

Another 12-mile run purely for testing, same results. voltmeter good enroute, 11v back home with key on, but at battery multimeter shows 12.5 more or less. New R/R mounted under the seat, once again very warm. Rats! Looks like my scheme may have a flaw.

[cruiser]

It sounds like things are OK while the R/R is cool at the beginning of the ride but the output voltage gradually drops as the R/R heats up.

If you are worried about heat in the original mounting position, you can always add a 80mm 12 volt computer fan like this:



Here's another picture showing a cheaper low output R/R (failed) that I tried on the left. The OEM type is on the right with the fan mounted. The fan gets power from the output of the R/R.

[ellpee]

Hey, that looks very cool, no pun intended, and pretty simple to boot. Guess I'll shop around for a wee fan and try that for a run or two. If no joy I can always use the fan for something else eventually.

UPDATE: I keep adding onto this thread for the benefit of those who come after, hope it doesn't become tedious.

That fan idea was nothing short of brilliant. Went out and bought one, mounted it more or less as shown in cruiser's pix. Only problem was the hair-fine wires on the fan, hard to connect. Next time I'd be tempted to solder them to some "real" wires that you can handle without worrying about the extremely delicate OEM wires.

Then did a ~25 mile run on a near-90 afternoon, several enroute errands, checking the R/R situation at ever stop. It got WARM, but never really HOT; fan seems to have done the intended job. Not sure how it would do in the most extreme AZ summer heat, but in the 90-degree range, all good.

As to the readings on the newly installed dashboard Voltmeter, however, I'm still a little uneasy. Scoot started after every stop, ran smoothly on the road, but I could see the key-on voltmeter readings slowly dropping, engine running or not. By the end of my run, key-on/engine-running reading was just a hair below 11 volts, scary low for this newbie. It's as if the R/R is keeping up with the demands of the ignition and accessories while on the road, and sending whatever it has left over to the battery, but that's not enough to keep the battery at or above 12v. My paranoiac brain could still envision a no-juice roadside disaster.

Thoughts/suggestions welcome. I have a week left before the scoot goes to bed for the summer, but between now and then I'm ready to experiment and post for the greater good of scooterdom everywhere.