instrument cluster By smutty (Read 2,965 times)

[n4zou]

The Chinese use soldered joints in wiring harnesses. When I was going through Basic Electricity and Electronics and Engineering Electronic Operation and Controls schools in the Navy we were told to never ever solder low voltage, high current electrical connections. I have found that soldered connections in automotive wiring will fail. When I purchased my first Chinese scoot (a TANK 250) I started having electrical problems after a few months. I found they had soldered some ground wires together inside the harness and this soldered connection had gone bad. I ended up pulling the wiring harness out, cutting it open, and cutting out every soldered connection and replacing them with crimp type automotive butt connectors. While I had the harness off the scoot I used marine grade water proof grease as a dialectic paste which is the same stuff sold as bulb and connector grease at much higher prices in all the connectors to seal them up preventing corrosion and oxidation. You can buy a tub of marine grade grease for less than a couple of packs of bulb and connector grease.

[smutty]

hey jr---well im not doing to good--this thing is wierd--ok--i followed the neg.. cabel to the frame---took all the paint offamd tighened it back down--hooked the batt.. back up---turned the key--and it worked---turned the key off and back on again---and it didnt work--i dont think its the negative cabel----cause--i can take a wire with aligator clips---hook one to the neg... post and one to the handelbars--i can get it to work---but when i turn the key---off to on--it goes out again--im stumped---lol-----smutty

[tvnacman]

sounds like a bad wire .

John

[JR]

Ok Smutty don't throw in the towel here. This grounding the handlebars is still indiactaing a bad ground or even a bad wire like TV said. Good thing is we know the cluster isn't bad.

Now remember there are green ground wires that go to functions of the cluster too. Got hot wires it takes a ground too. On most scooters green is always ground and it's easy enough to check. Set the old ohm meter to 20k put the black lead on a good know ground source (negative terminal on the battery) and start checking the green wire/wires going inot the cluster and see if you get a full ohms resistance reading.

Also it's possible that the handlebars themselves are grounded with a wire of some sort so again the old tracing stuff out is going to have to be a must. You have plugs, wires and connectors whether they be crimped or soldiered is fro sure and they can and will fail.

An idea might be turn on the key and one by one start moving around or giggling one wire at a time especially the grounds and see if the old gauges just light up! If so you may have found the gremlin.

Look for wires that somehow may have got pinced but not all the way into. We're going to find this!

JR

[tvnacman]

sometimes to find a bad connection in the ground circuit , you need to get a pigtail with a bulb about 35w connect to the positive battery with one lead , with the other lead touch ground along the green wire at all junction points . The 35w bulb is a small load if the ground is bad it will not light . When you check continuity in a wire with an ohm meter you will get a good reading . With the meter there is no load .

John

[JR]

Dec 26, 2011 9:55:55 GMT -6 n4zou said:

The Chinese use soldered joints in wiring harnesses. When I was going through Basic Electricity and Electronics and Engineering Electronic Operation and Controls schools in the Navy we were told to never ever solder low voltage, high current electrical connections. I have found that soldered connections in automotive wiring will fail. When I purchased my first Chinese scoot (a TANK 250) I started having electrical problems after a few months. I found they had soldered some ground wires together inside the harness and this soldered connection had gone bad. I ended up pulling the wiring harness out, cutting it open, and cutting out every soldered connection and replacing them with crimp type automotive butt connectors. While I had the harness off the scoot I used marine grade water proof grease as a dialectic paste which is the same stuff sold as bulb and connector grease at much higher prices in all the connectors to seal them up preventing corrosion and oxidation. You can buy a tub of marine grade grease for less than a couple of packs of bulb and connector grease.

Gonna agree somewhat especially if it's Chinese because of no quality control and poor soldier that they use, but myself I have yet to find a Chinese scooter with soldiered connections but rather the poor brass crimped ones and I keep the fitting and use quality "electronic" soldier liquid tape and/or heat shrink, problem solved.

Now having years of electronics myself I'll ask you the question? How mnay hundreds of electrical joints and connections are in everyday household items and your electronics that are soldiered?

Just because it plugs into 115Vac doesn't meant it runs on AC nearly all electronic items run off of DC that's been converted from AC because we know of a thing called the 60 cycle humbar.

Owned and operated lots of TV cable systems in my early years all TV line amplifiers run off of some form of line fed AC but each one has a built in transformer that converts to low voltage DC. Never had a failure to a bad soldier weld or connection.

Even the common car battery cables hook up to the battery with a form of a crimp connector in it's sense and how many times has one had to clean them because of corrosion or being badly connected?

"Properly" done a soldier connection is forever.

JR

[smutty]

ok--jr--theres a green wire coming out of the cluster---i put my-lead on the neg..batt..--and red lead to green wire---- i got a reading of( 0.18 )---------thats not right is it?--shouldnt it be---ooo1?---im tempted to run a ground from the cluster--to the neg post to see what happens--smutty

[tvnacman]

Dec 26, 2011 21:24:45 GMT -6 JR said:

Dec 26, 2011 9:55:55 GMT -6 n4zou said:

The Chinese use soldered joints in wiring harnesses. When I was going through Basic Electricity and Electronics and Engineering Electronic Operation and Controls schools in the Navy we were told to never ever solder low voltage, high current electrical connections. I have found that soldered connections in automotive wiring will fail. When I purchased my first Chinese scoot (a TANK 250) I started having electrical problems after a few months. I found they had soldered some ground wires together inside the harness and this soldered connection had gone bad. I ended up pulling the wiring harness out, cutting it open, and cutting out every soldered connection and replacing them with crimp type automotive butt connectors. While I had the harness off the scoot I used marine grade water proof grease as a dialectic paste which is the same stuff sold as bulb and connector grease at much higher prices in all the connectors to seal them up preventing corrosion and oxidation. You can buy a tub of marine grade grease for less than a couple of packs of bulb and connector grease.

Gonna agree somewhat especially if it's Chinese because of no quality control and poor soldier that they use, but myself I have yet to find a Chinese scooter with soldiered connections but rather the poor brass crimped ones and I keep the fitting and use quality "electronic" soldier liquid tape and/or heat shrink, problem solved.

Now having years of electronics myself I'll ask you the question? How mnay hundreds of electrical joints and connections are in everyday household items and your electronics that are soldiered?

Just because it plugs into 115Vac doesn't meant it runs on AC nearly all electronic items run off of DC that's been converted from AC because we know of a thing called the 60 cycle humbar.

Owned and operated lots of TV cable systems in my early years all TV line amplifiers run off of some form of line fed AC but each one has a built in transformer that converts to low voltage DC. Never had a failure to a bad soldier weld or connection.

Even the common car battery cables hook up to the battery with a form of a crimp connector in it's sense and how many times has one had to clean them because of corrosion or being badly connected?

"Properly" done a soldier connection is forever.

JR

Thats what band pass filters are made for 60hz hum

[JR]

Yes that's true but again look in a TV, radio and a lot of other electronic devices and you'll find the old transformer and nothing electronically that I know of at least in the "old days" works off of true AC power. DC does not have the humbar and therefore no need for a band pass filter.

My point was lots of things work on low voltage AC and DC and IMO that has nothing to do with making a soldier weld go bad. I've hooked up grounding to large bulidings working construction jobs the kind like the old ground rod that's on every home and on you electric meter. On these buildings we used a instant gun powder weld with a lead type welding to put pure copper lines together. I've seen them dug up after 20 yeasrs just as solid and connected as when the day they were new, again "properly" done.

Now where your ground wire to that meter on your home that hooks up to the ground rod with the old bolt on crimp connector, "can you say the same?" LOL

Again we're talking about a hurry up cheap Chinese scooter, will agree that the soldier joints are probalby poor but I'm betting the ones I put on will be there just like those 20 year old copper soldier connections I mentioned. if they quit on me soon then I'll for sure be on the crimp on "made for convience connetors" band wagon.

JR

[JR]

Dec 27, 2011 12:38:07 GMT -6 smutty said:

ok--jr--theres a green wire coming out of the cluster---i put my-lead on the neg..batt..--and red lead to green wire---- i got a reading of( 0.18 )---------thats not right is it?--shouldnt it be---ooo1?---im tempted to run a ground from the cluster--to the neg post to see what happens--smutty

Not a bad idea Smutty and if it lights up like it's supposed to then you just need to ttrace this wire out.

JR

[tvnacman]

Here in NYC we ground to the water main .

The band pass filter is just a coil and capacitor in parellel the capactor gets grounded and the coil feeds the ckt . the capactor will pass ac the coil will pass dc

[JR]

Undersatnd TV but my water main is out by the road around 100ft from here and at least 6ft. deep!

We ground the meter at the base by driving a 6 ft. copper rod in the ground and then using a solid copper ground wire it's then clamped on the rod with a brass type one bolt clamp.

Also my water main is PVC not very good to ground too!

JR

[tvnacman]

we use copper mains that are , the connection is in the house by the foundation , by the meter . Either work well .

A capactior will pass ac , a coil will pass dc . A capactior will block dc . Its very simple if one understands (can see electric) otherwise its magic .

John

[JR]

Yep but Arkansas has learned a lesson on copper and it's simple 15 to 20 years and it's toast here. Lot's of Arkansas water has natural sulphur in it along with other minerals that just seem to over time make copper crumble like a cracker.

My fathers house had all copper in the concrete foundation and in 17 years he had to have the entire house re-plumbed over head and he swore never again on copper.

All house drop feed lines used to be standard copper here but citiies and municpalities over they years have replaced them all.

I kid you not it will get to the point it actually will crumble in your hand.

[smutty]

well--jr--that didnt work---i ran a ground wire --from the cluster to the--neg.. post---(nothing)---so im asumeing my ground wire is ok---must be something else--ill keep looking--smutty