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Post by jalat on Sept 4, 2011 21:40:27 GMT -6
Second last item in this page is 7 pin R/R. This looks just like the one I use in my jonway, but mine has only 6 wire. I changed my stock R/R to this kind of smaller R/R and got 0.2-0.4V better charge. Picture of 6 wire stock R/R (bottom) and smaller CH250 6 wire R/R (top)The connectors looks like identical in 6 wire and 7 wire R/R and I believe the wires are in same order too. Could it do the trick? If you see that green one is not coming from the stator (like in your drawing). The green one is coming from the R/R and is in the same connector just like in stock R/R. And in the stock connector there are two connectors. One 3 pin connector for yellow wired and one 4 pin connector for red, green and black wires. Which leaves the fourth wire place for free and in 7 wire R/R it is used for white wire. That white one could be the one for cooling fan  Cost only 24.95 usd. Darn that I live in Finland. Shipping costs are easily 25-30 usd more. Please someone of you who lives in the USA and have tried to use two xenon bulbs with charging issues, buy that regulator and report here does it do good ;D (Many Honda models use the same connectors in R/R. And there is even 8 wire versions of R/R. You can for sure see that this one separate green wire is for ground. It has "O-connector" for bolt .bikeserviceparts.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=577" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"> .bikeserviceparts.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=577 I believe some models do the grounding using the body of R/R and bolt. And some models do the grounding using that one green extra wire? Maybe)
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Post by JR on Sept 4, 2011 23:31:41 GMT -6
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Post by jalat on Sept 5, 2011 0:05:29 GMT -6
At the moment I have long time run test with my current setup. I will drive one or two weeks using both hid lights on and will then check the battery voltage. I started this test run yesterday and battery was showing 12.53V.
The weather is now much colder than month ago and this affects dramatically for cooling. Fan is not running off all the time.
But if the battery will go near 12.0V then I might give it a try for this another regulator.
Thank you JR for the cheaper link. LOL
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Post by jalat on Sept 5, 2011 0:17:23 GMT -6
Hmm... In my case (headlights on without engine running) would it be easier to leave the cooling fan wiring as it is originally and just connect hid light positive wire to that R/R white wire instead of battery+ ? Then I loose my headlights when engine is not running. But that is not problem at all. Just thinking |
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Post by JR on Sept 5, 2011 6:06:12 GMT -6
That is a thought for sure too and again just at first I would also leave the autochoke alone and then fire her up with the lights off, check charging voltage then check it with the lights on.
You also will need to check the voltage on the black wire to see if it's the same as the white wire or maybe more? Remember the 18 coil stator has two windings deicated to the pick up coil so with 16 coils left my thought is one of the phases may just be a touch stronger than the other two because when divided out two phases are going to be 5 coils and one with 6 or at least that's how I figure it?
Also remember if this R/R just plugs in like we think it will you could leave all of your current wiring alone and just simply pull the fuse to the fan, unplug it at the fan and run a temporary jumper from the white wire to the fan and let it sit and idle until the fan kicks on all the while measuring voltages to see how it's all doing. My thought is that your HID's will be stronger hooked up on the battery with one leg charging too, but until you test it who knows?
I'm trying to find the layout on the 18 coil stator to verify this but so far I haven't.
JR
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Post by cruiser on Sept 5, 2011 19:24:01 GMT -6
Well, guys, I have been reading this thread with some interest. I was waiting to see if anyone would chime in and say what the output voltage of the white wire was. There seems to be an assumption that it is the same as the red wire which feeds the battery. I was thinking if that was the case, why not (from the manufacturer's viewpoint) just eliminate the white wire feed and connect the enricher directly to the output of the R/R? After doing some research across a few forums, I came up with this from swakanobbi over on the scooterchinois French motor scooter forum. .scooterchinois.fr/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=939&forum=54" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">.scooterchinois.fr/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=939&forum=54The third entry on this thread says that he measured the output of the white wire at 6 volts DC. It doesn't look like a good candidate for the cooling fan feed if that reading is correct. I also feel that the 7 pin regulator is not as robust as the 6 pin OEM regulator as far as the amount of power output on the red wire. The eBay link for the scrappydog R/R is for an OBO auction, so if anyone wants to lowball a bid they might get a real good buy.
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Post by JR on Sept 6, 2011 10:54:15 GMT -6
I know this thread Cruiser and on all of the 11 pole stator hook ups you see the white wire used for the auto choke and if it was 6 volts I don't think it would do the job for it? Here is a thread that seems to tell the complete story on this with a 11 pole stator: scootdawg.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=talk&action=display&thread=8929&page=2Now if the black wire is a sensor wire then the R/R is esentially the same as the 6-pin one with one exception and that's on the note of you think it's not as strong as the 6-pin and that white wire and on the drawing on that thread he's showing 10Vdc+ and if it increases with it revved up then it's a fan wire for sure. You see gy-rocket said he was getting 15-16v revved and if that's the case then it is set at a higher peak than the 6-pin and 15-16v would run HID"s and keep the battery charged. What happens is the regulator uses the difference between the unregulated voltage (AC) and the controlled value of the regulators output (DC) For instance if you put a 20 volt regulator on a 15 volt input it won’t work at all but if you put a 14 volt regulator on a 17 volt input it’ll work fine. But you have to keep it close as the bigger the gap the more work the regulator has to do to shunt the extra voltage thus the hotter it will be. That’s also why if you say take a lot of the load off lights etc, the regulator is working it’s butt off to hold the voltage down and will burn up quickly some scooters have a headlight on/off switch and if they do they have a load resistor to simulate the lights when they are off to keep the same load on the regulator. Simply put the rectifier converts AC to DC the regulator HOLDS the voltage down to it's set value, it does not create voltage that’s done by the stator. Bigger better stator one gets more working amps but you will never get more volts than the regulator is rated at. That's even the problem Damin69 was seeing and if you can get a higher rated R/R then you can have more voltage to work with, with my fan off my linhai puts out a steady 16Vdc and people who have reported HID's on the linhai aren't having this trouble. I think the CFmoto version R/ R is rated at a peak of 14Vdc and with HID's it's not enough. If gy-rockets findings are correct then the PFS 7-pin R/R must be rated at least at 16Vdc. Also again let's not forget his reading was with a 11 coil stator, 18 coils should do better as far as working amps possibly? I just emailed TV and he has the 11 pole stator with the 7-pin R/R and I asked him to measure the DC voltage on the red, black and white wires with it idling and revved up, let's see what his findings are? JR |
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Post by jalat on Sept 6, 2011 13:10:14 GMT -6
What stator is the stock stator in this yy250t cfmoto scooter?
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Post by JR on Sept 6, 2011 13:52:49 GMT -6
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Post by tvnacman on Sept 6, 2011 19:10:50 GMT -6
ok guys its dark and raining , I had a thought , i'm going to redo the measurements the extra thing I plan to do is connect an amp probe to the yellow ac wires , this may clear up weather the regulator is loading and dumping the ACV from the stator or if it is dumping the DC , I will probe the ground as well . I will try all combinations . If there is something you have interest in or a certain reading let me know I will try for tomorrow evening .
John
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Post by JR on Sept 7, 2011 4:45:00 GMT -6
It's regulating the DC if thats what you mean by dumping? The regulator only allows what it's set value is to the charging system, if it's rated at 14Vdc than that's all one is going to get? Like I said if the 7-pin R/R that Gy-rocket used is rated at 16Vdc than that's why his system put out that much and it was also the reason he started running well with his HID's with that much voltage one could run the lights and keep the battery charged.
Another thought is one may can have that company that Damin69 used build you a higher rated R/R because I have no doubt there is plenty of AC power on the 18 coil stator to have 16Vdc. But for sure you would always need to keep the lights on because with them off I'm not sure the other things could handle the 16 volts long although it's been that way on my linhai for some time?
I'm anxious to find out about the white wire as from what I've gathered the red is the only one regulated because of the battery? If this is the case then the white wire's output after being rectified is at a set value give or take a little according to the scooter engine RPM which would change the AC output. If it's 10VDc or more as he listed then it should handle the fan because the other side as in the red wire does now.
JR
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Post by jalat on Sept 8, 2011 0:26:15 GMT -6
I have been testing my charging couple of days. I decided to drive for a one week my regular everyday driving with both HIDs on. Mostly driving to work and same to home. About totally 20km per day and 50-50 city and highway driving. On sunday cold battery show 12.53 Volts. Test begin. On tuesday evening cold battery show 12.32 Volts. The whole wednesday I drive also with grip heaters on. On thursday morning cold battery show 12.26 Volts. State of Charge100% 12.7v *75% 12.4v 50% 12.2v 25% 12.0v Discharged 11.9v *Sulfation of Batteries starts when specific gravity falls below 1.225 or voltage measures less than 12.4 for a 12v battery, or 6.2 for a 6 volt battery. Sulfation hardens on the battery plates reducing and eventually destroying the ability of the battery to generate Volts and Amps.At the moment my battery says 12.26 volts which mean about only 50%-60% state of charge. But still my scooter starts like a lighting. I only need to show my finger to start button and WROOM it's running. Weird. But I guess it's better to stop this test or I will broke my battery. |
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Post by JR on Sept 8, 2011 4:42:03 GMT -6
Generally speaking one needs the battery to stay at 12.7 volts to be at peak my 14ah battery at full charge cold always holds at 13.1 volts.
With all things running if you can keep 13+ volts going to the battery it'll hold it's own. With my battery fully charged and the fan on my linhai at idle will hold 13.4 volts and higher RPM 13.9.
I would not be afraid to run HID's because I modded the cooling system to keep the fan off as much as possible. We finally got some cool weather highs daily of only 80 and I been riding my scooter a lot even to football practice with my grandson, my fan has not come on at all in the last two weeks battery has never been a issue. I rarely ride at night so I have never considered upgrading my lights.
I'm just hoping to help find a better way for the CFMoto sister engine for those who have had this frustration and am hoping this R/R might be of help?
JR
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Post by jalat on Sept 8, 2011 5:30:39 GMT -6
Hopefully tvnacman will measure the R/R volts soon  |
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Post by tvnacman on Sept 9, 2011 7:02:19 GMT -6
I hope the weather is good this weekend , I will get the readings .
John
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