Just had a thought? CFMoto Charging Problems By JR (Read 16,548 times)

[JR]

Been reading and keeping up with all these folks who have been having the charging issues on the CFMoto clone type engines especially with the fan running a lot in hot weather due to the simply design flaw of the radiator placement. And while I've always said and still believe one of the ways to help this is simply add another in line radiator with small low wattage fans running all the time I think I just came up with a solution?

We all know of things people have done that have helped but not totally solved this issue and also with it like it is it's impossible to run a two bulb HID system on this scooter while it's linhai sister will handle the load.

So with that in mind let think about the people who have successfully installed HID's on 150cc scooters by putting in a 11 coil stator.

Now you say yes they can do it because they are not running a cooling fan on a air cooled engine which is true but one thing they are doing that is not on the Cf Moto or linhai clone is using a 7-wire R/R. On both of these engines we have a 6-wire R/R and here is a typical setup on a 150 with HID's and a 11 coil stator:



Now on the 11 coil stator it's 3-phase but the 18 coil stator is also and the 7-wire R/R should work on both of these water cooled scooters.

What I would do is wire the 7-wire R/R up just like in this diagram and use the white wire to run the fan along with the choke, in fact you may be able to do this any way with the 6-wire R/R that is already supplied but with the 7-wire one you have the load equally divided among the coils of the stator.

I would route the cooling fan out of the fuse box and off of the circuit that charges the battery, again divide the load. The 18 coil stator should have a equal amount of coils on each phase and putting the cooling fan on the auto choke should not overload that circuit? This would leave the red wire for only running the lights and charging the battery.

For sure I don't think it would be any worse? Thoughts?

JR

[tvnacman]

You have caught my interest here , do you have a good diagram of the 18coil set up , from the coils in the stator to the regulator and wiring .

John

[tvnacman]

how about a low power 3 ph motor

[jalat]

Very interesting theory. Could this finally fix the cfmoto charging issue?

But... for example in my jonway yy250t cfmoto clone engined scooter the enricher is given AC directly from one of the three yellow wire coming from stator. Somebody (I think it was Cruiser) told that enricher works with AC or DC. Both works with enricher. But how about cooling fan. It cannot work with AC. It need DC to turn correct way.

That is how my EURO version scooter wiring goes. In EURO version the lights can be on without engine running. Lights are connected to the battery. So that could not work in EURO version scooters.

[jalat]

Hmm...

Euro version wiring diagram
4.bp.blogspot.com/-niEIcF9dJ_8/TgSoUuvocaI/AAAAAAAAAHM/32UTq0WkEhU/s1600/jonway-wiring-diagram.jpg

6 wire R/R (manostat in the picture)
- red wire is for battery charging. Also for constant hot wire to main switch (key)
- green wire is for ground
- black wire... isn't that for almost all the rest electric devices?

Is your US version cfmoto clone engined scooter fan on when engine is off and you turn key to the on position? So that the fan can be run using with battery? Mine works like that. Of course engine have to hot when testing this.

In that wiring diagram I'm not sure if that black wire from R/R is giving the power for all other electric devices (including fan) when engine is on. And if engine is off and key is turned on position then battery gives the power for all devices. That's how I read that diagram. Maybe I read it wrong?

But anyway I also have this charging problem when I use two hid same time with fan.

[JR]

All valid points and here is the current four versions of this scooter's wiring including your Euro version;

thescooterprofessor.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=250g&action=display&thread=430

As you stated your fan will run provided the engine is hot enough with just the key on along with your headlights and the American version does also, but if you look at my linhai version you see the fan runs off of the regulated side with the engine running only just like the headlights and ties in right before the blocking diode.

You are also right in saying the auto choke will run off of AC or DC and even though it is tied into the yellow leg before the R/R it will run off of one other regulated legs too.

But if we want to move the fan off of the same circuit as the lights it should work fine on this R/R:



Run the red to battery for charging, black to the ignition and use white for the fan by just cutting the wire to the fuse box and routing it to the new R/R.

The stator is three phase design with delta (versus wye) windings and voltage can be measured between any of the three yellow windings and from what I can find I haven't measured the voltage on my linhai but the voltage should be about 18 to 28 VAC at idle and 45 to 75 VAC at half red-line.

Here is the typical 18 coil stator and on all I see the 2 wrapped windings are for the pick up coil to send the message to the CDI as to when to fire so that leaves a total of 16 other winding divided up for equal or near equal load in the 3 phases going to the R/R.

.chinesemotoparts.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=112_143&products_id=201" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">.chinesemotoparts.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=112_143&products_id=201

IMO if you isolate the fan and also improve the cooling to go with it a 2 bulb HID system will be a breeze, all who have upgraded to a 11 coil system on the 150's with this 7-pin R/R have had good success.

JR

[jalat]

Hey JR. I noticed a little mistake in the third wiring diagram text behind your last post link.

"Next is the 250T version which the fuse set up is like the Linhai version but this scooter is different in the fact is has no blocking diode and a headlight on/off switch. All lights will function just with the key on along with the cooling fan if the radiator is hot enough. Also this version has a side stand safety cut off switch and the scooter will not start with the stand down."

In that third diagram there is headlight on/off switch.

You may delete this post when you fixed that


Oh.. and because I live in Finland and my Jonway yy250t is bought from here, I think this is Euro version. But in your wiring diagram page you write in that last (fourth) one that there is no headlight on/off switch.

"Lastly is the Jonway YY250T Euro version of this scooter. It has a fuse box and no blocking diode however it does not have a on/off headlight switch. "

Mine has separate fuse box. Also there is headlight on/off switch. Also headlights are working with battery and no blocking diode or relay. And there is kill switch in the right handle and also kill switch in the side stand. And there are five wires going into cdi-box.

Does that make this the fifth version of Honda Reflex clone?

[tvnacman]

if I remember when I did the conversion to 11pole and 7pin . when the black wire was not connected the output was a good steady 14.5vdc , with the black connected at ldle it was 13.3vdc and after reving it up it went to 14.3vdc . For some reason it seemed more stable with the black wire not connected . I did follow the diagram and I did leave the black wire connected . I changed the headlights to dcv . the headlights were 25w I changed them to 35w and my voltage went down I left one light out . and then I banged up . So if this helps great .

John

[JR]

Hey Jalat I think I know what I done! I was very tired when I poted this and I think I've got a couple of the diagrams reversed! LOL

Also there is a version with a four wire CDI and I believe you actually worked on one that had no spark remember?

it's also possible of a 5th diagram and wiring arrangement as I do actually have a different 5th diagram. I'll take the notes here from your scooter and fix it like it needs to be and rework the one I crossed.

Thanks JR

[JR]

OK I went and looked through all of those diagrams again and all I can say is I've been putting in way too may hours totally dropped the ball on the last two but I made corrections and it should be right on.

But while I was looking this over I remembered this diagram now that you posted on this thread:

thescooterprofessor.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=250classchinese&action=display&thread=344

Remember when you stated that your Euro version had a 5 wire CDI but the diagram only listed four? Well here is why;

scooterdoc.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=elec&action=display&thread=2651

I listed this diagram a good time back and it is not a copy of any version of the reflex clone but rather the Lance Duke or Tank 250 diagram.

You listed this to them as a 250T diagram over there also:

scooterdoc.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=elec&action=display&thread=4264

This is not the YY250T diagram but again the Lance touring 250 and it is listed right now here as well as over there;

thescooterprofessor.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=250g&action=display&thread=456

Now we're both straight and you might want to let them know that they have two versions of this diagram. ;D

JR

[jalat]

This is really confusing. Why they just don't use just one universal style wiring in all scooters
It would be good for everyone

I remember that spark problem of my friends scooter. It really did have 4 wires for cdi and mine has 5. But my friend bought it from a guy who bought it directly from china when he was there. And imported it to Finland with another stuff. So I can't be sure is that 4 wire version really an euro-version. And now my friend sold it to buy a motorcycle. And we tried to cross change cdi boxes between scooters and both worked fine in both scooters.

JR you are doing good job with this forum. High five 0/\0

[jalat]

Sept 3, 2011 13:29:13 GMT -6 JR said:

Run the red to battery for charging, black to the ignition and use white for the fan by just cutting the wire to the fuse box and routing it to the new R/R.

In that regulator there is four inputs. 3 yellow and 1 green. What if one connects only those 3 yellow wire and not connect that green one at all?
How would it work?

And in stock 6 wire R/R there is one green output wire which is for ground.
In that 7 wire R/R there is no green output wire for ground. Is it grounding from the body of R/R?

In this 7 wire version that white output hot wire is extra

I mean can this 7 wire R/R be used instead of 6 wire version without doing any modifications for stator?

[JR]

Thanks what I'm thinking! On the 6-pin R/R that we have the green is gound so I think that if you tie in the green on the 7-pin to the green on the existing harness then as we already said red to battery, black to ignition and white to fan and autochoke.

My thought is wire up the R/R and hook all up as we said, it's obvious all three yellows are apples to apples on hooking up and we also know what read and black is for.

Now the stator is grounded already and IMO the only difference is the grounding of the scooter comes out of the 6-pin R/R and instead of from the stator so again just tie in the ground from the old R/R into this 7-pin one a ground is a ground.

Another thought leave the autochoke hooked up as it is just temporarily and see if iot all functions the same without re-wiring it again it doesn't care if it's AC or DC?

Again the only difference between the 11 coil stator that this 7-pin R/R is used on and the 18 coil stator isthe nuber of coils and I read somewhere that someone even used a 6-pin R/R on the 11 coil stator with no issues. I'll see if I can find this.

If this does work then it's going to be a big improvement I'm thinking.

JR

[JR]

Sept 4, 2011 14:37:09 GMT -6 jalat said:

This is really confusing. Why they just don't use just one universal style wiring in all scooters
It would be good for everyone

I remember that spark problem of my friends scooter. It really did have 4 wires for cdi and mine has 5. But my friend bought it from a guy who bought it directly from china when he was there. And imported it to Finland with another stuff. So I can't be sure is that 4 wire version really an euro-version. And now my friend sold it to buy a motorcycle. And we tried to cross change cdi boxes between scooters and both worked fine in both scooters.

JR you are doing good job with this forum. High five 0/\0

Thanks for the compliment Jalat, I really appreciate it. Also if you look at the wiring diagrams of your Euro version and the 4 wire CDI version that is on the Lance Duke you'll see that they just simply eliminate the wire from the kill switch and the ignition switch by hooking it up to the kill wire in the harness instead of at the plug on the CDI thus the 4 wire version, it is still a DC powered CDI and the CDI's have the same pin out so that's why your 5-wire one from your scooter did work and his on yours.

Also in the thread you mentioned his scooter but was it actually a reflex clone body style? Reason I ask is if it was indeed then I'll add it to the list on the Reflex clone tech thread.

I have a Bali 150 wiring diagram that I put together and am going to make a Bali 250 as it has the body style of the Lance Duke and Tank touring also but I'm thinking the wiring is not like the Duke on several things so I'm not using the Duke diagram and saying it's the same on the Bali even though the body styles are very close.

You're right it would be nice to be universally the same and IMO the reason it is not is because the Chinese use so many variations of harnesses and electronics sometimes it's a matter of "this is what we have on the shelf today so let's make it work."

As long as you have that then you can keep looking for different diagrams and the printing of them needs a lot of improvement also. On a lot of ones I am going to use I will use my computer to clean them up before I download them if they are not plain enough to read and that takes a lot of time.

Again let me know about your friends scooter as far as it's body style may have to add this diagram back.

JR

[jalat]

Sept 4, 2011 20:40:57 GMT -6 JR said:

Also in the thread you mentioned his scooter but was it actually a reflex clone body style? Reason I ask is if it was indeed then I'll add it to the list on the Reflex clone tech thread.

JR

It's body style was a reflex clone front and a new kind of more round rear with a helmet trunk. It was like this Jonway Predator 2009.

.jonway.com/english/productShow.asp?id=90" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">.jonway.com/english/productShow.asp?id=90