Battery concern By bobf (Read 1,348 times)

[bobf]

I have a 2008 Roketa 250CC MC-54-250B that I actually bought brand new in Jan 2011 and received in Feb 2011

Recently I tried to start it up and nothing happened. Since then it has been charged and for the past week I have periodically checked the voltage. It started, from after the charge at 13.19 volts at 7 am and by 7 pm it was down to 12.98 volts. Next day it was at 12.91 volts. Then on day 3 it was 12.86 volts. By day 4 I found 12.84 volts. Day 5 showed 12.81 volts and day 6 we see 12.76 volts. Now today I see 12.75.

Nothing has been done to the scoot but read the battery from the battery posts.

After a couple more days I will finally restart and watch to see if the charging system will kick in and try to bring the reserve volts in the battery back up a bit. If that does not happen would that mean the alternator is not working?

Also wondering if disconnecting the clock could help keep this daily drain from happening? Are there any other slow bleeding items to check for?

I have been caught before with a dead battery and no previous warning. I have put two batteries in the scoot since the original one died and it is only 4 years or so in my hands. That is not good in my mind.

[rks]

I would suggest that you buy a low amp, battery maintainer, such as a Battery Tender Jr. or a Schumacher, like the model I linked. I have 5 units altogether, (both of the ones listed above), and keep my scooter plugged in whenever I'm not on it. Same story with my 2 motorcycles. Both charger brands come with leads that bolt to your battery posts, so you can just plug in when needed, instead of fiddling with alligator clips, and trying to gain access to the battery daily.

link

[ccprof]

Amen to the Battery Tender Jr. Even with that, I need to recharge every few weeks. The fuel injection system seems to suck the charge down.

[bobf]

I have always used battery tenders. Had the Jr on all the time and that was when my original battery left me down across town and would not restart the engine. A guy in a pickup near me said he could jump me, and he did. Got me home. Then later on my Jr got dropped and decided to not work any more so I went to replace it and no Jrs available. Now I use the next size up called "Battery Tender " but no Junior associated with it. I used this similar to my Jr usage but at times allow the scooter to sit without being connected. It acts as a charger when starting but then changes to a trickle charger as the voltage picks up in the battery.

If this is what happens to these newer batteries, not hold a charge and completely fail in a year or two, they are really not worth the charges taken from my wallet.

Was wondering if somehow my generation system is not working good or even not working at all. So I will continue tracking my battery without the charger being put back on and also by checking, then running for a while, then checking again. I would expect it to start with one level and return with a higher level if the charging system is working. If not then maybe need to do something to the charging system like check the wiring for good connections, replace parts, whatever.

Anyone experienced with this type of problem. Sudden death of batteries and short life of batteries. Maybe add a volt gauge to the dash so I can see what is going on?

[ellpee]

Hey Bob, if the voltage is dropping, albeit very slowly, when the scooter is parked, not running at all, then there's no reason to suspect the charging system. Battery, maybe, or slight drain from clock, alarm system, etc., that are active even with the key off.

That being said, I went nuts trying to get my 2011 Roketa's charging system to keep up with the load, especially when the fan kicked in, and the thing that finally cured it was an expensive but really good-quality R/R from that guy up in Oregon. Since you wrote elsewhere that you're thinking of selling the scoot, don't know if you want to plunk down $100 or so for that cure.

I do recommend a dashboard voltmeter -- cheap, easy to install and helped a lot in chasing down my pesky problem.

BTW, I know you're just up the road, and I do have a spare, little-used OEM-grade (9Ah) battery that I drove around with as a backup until the R/R switch finally solved my issues. If you ever come down to Tucson, I'll take half of what I paid for it, which as I recall was around $70 at CarQuest. Nowadays it's just extra weight in the trunk, though I suppose I'll need it eventually. More likely I'll buy a higher-amp replacement if the scoot is still running well at that point.

[bobf]

Thanks ellpee. Who is this expensive R/R in Oregon you speak of. Is it a higher level of charging item? If you have their business name , address, or link, I will take a look at what they offer.

I have thought about disconnecting the radio as I never use it. And the clock really does not get much attention from me either so it could be disconnected and no loss. The alarm is something I had not thought of. The only time I have heard it chirp was when I did not have the proper settings and was punching my little box this way and that but had trouble shutting off the alarm. Maybe disconnect those from the battery would be a help.

Yes, I am considering selling if I don't ride it much more. I only run around in town here, never tried a trip. My question in that post was about how much would the market offer these days. Never got an answer so I guess I will go to a scooter store in town or up in Phoenix to check their prices and start from there.

[ccprof]

I seem to remember folks having battery problems with scoots that had alarms or remote starters. I had them on my old UM Matrix 150 but not on the Xpeed so I can't say for sure.

[ellpee]

Mar 5, 2015 19:44:16 GMT -6 bobf said:

Thanks ellpee. Who is this expensive R/R in Oregon you speak of. Is it a higher level of charging item? If you have their business name , address, or link, I will take a look at what they offer.

I have thought about disconnecting the radio as I never use it. And the clock really does not get much attention from me either so it could be disconnected and no loss. The alarm is something I had not thought of. The only time I have heard it chirp was when I did not have the proper settings and was punching my little box this way and that but had trouble shutting off the alarm. Maybe disconnect those from the battery would be a help.

Yes, I am considering selling if I don't ride it much more. I only run around in town here, never tried a trip. My question in that post was about how much would the market offer these days. Never got an answer so I guess I will go to a scooter store in town or up in Phoenix to check their prices and start from there.

The place is OregonMotorcycleParts.com, and for my Honda-clone 2011 Roketa the R/R was just a few bucks over $100 including shipping. As I understand it the guy builds them himself or subs it out to others using his specifications. I don't exactly know what's different inside, but from the first day I installed mine the dashboard voltmeter has never dropped below 13v even with everything running. No significant size or plugology difference, and he'll want full info from you about the plugs on your old one, as he'll install the correct ones just before filling your order.

As to all the minor dashboard stuff, if you decide for the R/R you'll probably not have to disconnect anything. I rarely use the radio either, and mostly ignore the clock, which loses a few minutes a week anyway. I don't use the remote/alarm either, though I've had those hit-the-wrong-button moments too. In chasing down my charging problems I did replace the OEM fan with a lower-amp fan, and most bulbs with LEDs, and added a headlight cutoff switch as I don't ride at night and the LED running lights are plenty bright. None of that solved the main problem -- only the new R/R did that.

As to selling it, I was at Scoot Over Tucson recently, and they said in trade about all they could give me would be $500. Were I to sell mine, I'd start with CycleTrader and/or Craigslist (be careful of scammers there, though), and probably ask around $1300 and see what happened. Since yours is older (though very low miles), maybe $1000 would be a place to start dickering? Others may chime in.

[bobf]

Thanks ellpee for your note and information. I put him on my find list and even opened his site for a look. Sounds like a decent person. So when I get ready I will send him my scoot description and my concerns. Then we should be able to decide what to do. In the mean time I am not on my charger yet as I would like to have a short ride with charge known prior and again when I get back. Prior to sending him a note.

[ellpee]

Makes sense. Is your battery draining SIGNIFICANTLY while the scoot is parked, or only when you're on the road and the fan, headlights, etc., are sucking juice?

[bobf]

ellpee, I will post some of my data and my results of running the engine and watching the volts at the same time. I could not figure out how to ride and still watch the volts so I just ran it on the stand so I could also have the voltmeter connected and see how the charge was doing.

My first reading after off the long charge and the charger was satisfied and shut itself off was 13.19 volts.

1 day it was12.91, then next day 12.86, next day 12.82, next 12.81, next 12.76, next 12.75, next 12.72, next 12.73, today 12.65.

While running I could vary the speed as shown on the tach. Running idle I could see

First run-----

Running at about 2,000 it showed

Somewhere above 2,000 the voltage could reach up into the 13.2 range and then drop off to 12.4

After finished and shut down the battery read 12.68 volts.

Second run ----

Start idle 13.17 volts

Idle with fan on 12.5 @ 1,000 rpm

Then 12.5 @ 4,000 RPM

Off 12.6 volts

On the first run at higher speeds, not checked but running real fast, I could see the voltage rise up into the 13+ range and then drop down into the 12 range.

I did not notice this in the second run but my number in the 4,000 range shows that might be true again.

I found it pretty hard to turn the throttle, read the gauges, watch the voltmeter, keep the voltmeter wire connected to the wire. I really could have used a knowledgeable helper at those times. Those 13+ numbers would show up but shortly they were gone and back to the 12's again.

I am definitely going to find a small voltmeter to install on my dash somewhere. I am also going to look into the battery needs while running and needing charged. I don't know these technical needs for the battery. Sort of sounds like what I need is a controllable regulator so I can boost the riding time charge to the amount the battery expects. Not sure that statement make sense. And that is what I have done over the last week or so and not much more going to happen for a while now, other than find a small voltmeter to install. I saw all kinds on the web but I prefer to look in the scooter and auto stores. So I can see the actual size and how they want to be installed.

Thanks for your help ellpee

[bobf]

Just been reading about batteries and charging systems on the web. Several say I should always see about 13 on up into the 14 volt ranges. I seldom ever see even 13 volts so maybe I should just go to ellpee's suggested supplier of charging components and see what he has to say.

.ch250.net/techtips/29.htm" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">.ch250.net/techtips/29.htm

[ellpee]

Dashboard voltmeter is well worth the $10 or so and a half hour for installation. Would be nice if these scooters came with one, considering they are inexpensive. Would trade the stupid clock and alarm system for that in a heartbeat. Anyhow, the issue is likely what is going on WHEN YOU ARE ROLLING. Barring a defective battery, engine-off readings are not relevant. As soon as the engine kicks in, the stator-->R/R-->battery-and-everything-else circuit kicks in. The R/R should be putting out enough DC to run everything, plus maybe a tad more to keep the battery charged. Ergo, you should under no circumstances see anything less than maybe 12.5 on the voltmeter, and more is better up to a point. Mine, after much investigation and investment, stays between 13 and 14.

[bobf]

Well, it is a done deal. $104.50 and will ship this week. I sent him my list of numbers and how fast RPM etc. Next he sent me a item to order VRRPM3H. He said he has had good responses from scooter owners that used that part. It may even be the same as yours. He said it easily gets past the low output of the factory installed items.

By his photo's I can't really tell just how large or small it may be. I hope by week end I will know.

Thanks for the info and inputs from you ellpee.

[ellpee]

Sounds like the same one I got. Will be more or less the same size as the OEM R/R. Actually, if I recall correctly it's just a very little bit smaller, believe it or not, but a helluva lot more output.