Seat locks repair comments By bobf (Read 2,605 times)

[bobf]

Well, I think I have fixed the seat locks on my 2008 MC 54 250B with the Honda clone vertical engine.

I bought it over a year ago and shortly after unpacking and doing a basic PDI I noticed the rear lock for the seat was not working. I wrote about this and got some efforts to fix but I waited for a long time for a tear down period.

Since I bought the scoot in February and received it in March of 2011 I have only been able to put on 78 miles. First it was way too cold in Cortez Colorado. Since a year ago July I have had many problems with my health. I had shingles and the doctors had me on some rather strong medicines that were technically not be used and driving too. Strange feelings of dizziness for two months. We were also traveling to Arizona looking for a house. Last October we closed on a house in Casa Grande AZ and started our move down. We moved on December 23.

Immediately I was in the doctors office and it turned out to be sever kidney problems. Left kidney already treated and the right kidney will be taken care of this summer in August. Shortly after the left kidney fix I had my eyes checked. The left eye was cleared for surgery so that was done. Now I can see pretty well for mid and long distance. I can't get glasses for a few more weeks. And the older glasses don't work any more. So technically I am not to be driving as my license calls for glasses.

So once again I am not pushing my scoot riding for any reason. It is still registered in Colorado and not in Arizona. I can not go change my drover license to Arizona as if they ask me to do the eye test I will fail and getting the scoot registered means I have to drive it to the DMV.

Good time for fixing the failed seat latch. Which I have been doing recently. I think I have finally fixed it and have the scoot near almost all back together. Will finish that in the next day or two. I plan to write that up, with photo's and comments. I did so many things to the side latch and rear latch but nothing seemed to help. But late yesterday evening I noticed something dragging in the side latch. Applied a bit of pressure with my screw driver persuader and the drag was gone. So this morning I sat there and closed and opened the seat many times with no problems. That is why I kept locking and unlocking the seat. Expecting a random failure, which did not happen any more. I now have the black plastics back in place, the battery installed, and the rear colored panel laying loosely over everything. Everything seems OK at this point. All lights working on the rear so I got them plugged in correctly. I need some RTV for installing the screws on the plastics so tomorrow is shopping time for the wife and I will buy some new RTV and finish the job of assembly.

It is a bit hard doing garage time and working on the scoot. No cooling for the garage. We are running in the 90's and our highs are over the 100 mark with 111 being our hottest so far. It really sucks the ambition right out of me.

So I will finish the install and then put together the comments and photo's of what I did and how it is working now.
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[richardthescooter3]

I would being interested in how you fix it I got my scoot February 2011 and the rear latch has never worked, only the side latch works, Bob I'm glad your doing better hope your on the road soon, take care.
Richard

[damin69]

With My jonway the only way to latch the rear is to Make sure you push that area down first then the side to latch it. the rear is latch is controlled by the side latch.

[bobf]

Jun 10, 2012 17:32:52 GMT -6 richardthescooter3 said:

I would being interested in how you fix it I got my scoot February 2011 and the rear latch has never worked, only the side latch works, Bob I'm glad your doing better hope your on the road soon, take care.
Richard

First thing to do is be prepared for a tear down of the rear half. You need to get to both the front and side latches. Would suggest that you remove them, take off the cables, make sure that all the cams are really free and not dragging. I won't have time right now but I intend to do a write up with pictures on how to do the tear down. For you it might be a job for off season activity.

Damin69 has a good idea about pushing down on the rear of the seat just a bit faster than the side. As I was sitting there and constantly pushing down the seat I finally figured out the methodology of the second cable and the rear latch.

As the side bar on the seat enters the latch it pushes the latch part to the side and that pulls the cable that goes to the rear latch and releases the locking part on the rear latch. So if the side bar enters too quickly it may release the lock before the rear bar gets there and it can not enter at all. The rear down first motion may save you from a tear down.

I will do the tear down with comments, just don't know when. I will have the comments and photos of the latch areas soon.
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[nulldevice]

I fixed my seat latches. There is a U shaped piece of rod embedded in the seat pan. I pulled those out and no more seat latch troubles.

[bobf]

2008 MC 54 250B, Jonway 244cc, built by Shanghai JMStar Motorcycle Company

The location and repair of the lock not working problem.

As I worked on this problem for a week I tried different ways to fix what I thought was the problem.

1. First was to reinforce the cable holding fingers on the side latch assembly. After shutting and noticing that the rear latch was not catching the seat I noticed that the fingers were getting bent further toward the middle of the side latch. So I bent them back and reinstalled on the frame. That did not work but for a closing or two. Then no more latching at the back and often I had to use a long screw driver under the seat to release the side latch.

2. Next I determined to reinforce those tabs by adding some heavier steel to stop the bending. I used some spare file key lock pawls and glued them on with JB weld. One on the outside as shown and another on the inside where the cable guide is mounted. Seemed like a good idea but still the latch works sometimes and fails other times continued. That is a slow fix as each time I use JB weld it takes 24 hours till usage for maximum strength.

3. Then I noticed that the side latch was slow to respond to the turn of the key. Often not working and sometimes works on the second or third effort. Usually I had to work under the seat with a long screwdriver to release the seat.

So, again, I took the side latch assembly off and removed the spring, and both cables. Now I could freely swing the mechanical parts, but the one element was not free as I expected it to be. This I could see had been dragging on the upright part of the assembly as it was becoming scratched. I took a heavy screwdriver and put it under the part that was dragging and lift it a bit. Now that element was free to go where it needed to go. So I then sprayed graphite lube into both the side and rear latches.

4. Successful test next. I reinstalled the latch assembly with both cables now attached. I closed the seat, both side and rear latches caught. Turned the key and the seat popped up. Repeated this many times with no failures. Went to bed and restarted the testing this morning with still no failures. It seems to be fixed.

5. In the process of reinstalling all the plastic parts, the battery, the lights on the rear, and finally the outside skin. When that is completed I will be able to install the seat and trunk. Then it should all be set to go riding again. Final test will be to lock the seat and determine that the latches are working fine.

6. Finished assembly today, finally. I have had the covers on and off several times yesterday and today. I dropped a nut and could not find it with my eye's, my magnet, my wife's eyes. Had to go to Lowe's for a matching nut. Then found that a slip on speed nut was missing, back to Lowe's for some of those. Today I dropped a screw and could not find that so back to Lowe's for that. Now I have the machine together and some spare parts.

7. How the latch works. As the loop on the bottom of the seat enters the side latch it pulls the front to back cable and that allows the back latch to lock. So it is important to make sure the back loop is entering the rear latch as, or before, the side loop enters the side latch. So I found that pulling the rear part of the seat down smartly does make the latches more reliable. Much better latch today. Sometimes might miss the back latch but one more effort seems to work.

The red arrows indicate direction of the cables when locking. When the key is turned it reverses the cable action and pulls the side latch locking component toward the front to unlatch it and that then allows the spring on the rear latch enough slack for it to unlock.

This is only for the latch look see and repair. I will also post the machine tear down photo's later.

[bobf]

For some reason I can not get my photos to appear. All I get are the warnings about being moved or deleted. I am trying to use the photo image file and it says to copy the IMG Code. Which is what I was thinking I was doing. Just does not work but in the past I had no problems. So what has changed? Or is it just my misunderstanding of the photo notes.
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[bobf]

I finally got a photo to post so I may have corrected myself.
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[cruiser]

I see the photos, bobf. Very good detail and it looks like you are our seat latch expert. I will have to remember this as I have the same scoot as you. I must give you credit on your tenacity and determination on solving this problem.

[scootaway]

looking at those frame piping I wish I could rebuild these scooters using aluminium piping and save on weight.

[bobf]

Jun 10, 2012 19:14:36 GMT -6 bobf said:

Jun 10, 2012 17:32:52 GMT -6 richardthescooter3 said:

I would being interested in how you fix it I got my scoot February 2011 and the rear latch has never worked, only the side latch works, Bob I'm glad your doing better hope your on the road soon, take care.
Richard

First thing to do is be prepared for a tear down of the rear half. You need to get to both the front and side latches. Would suggest that you remove them, take off the cables, make sure that all the cams are really free and not dragging. I won't have time right now but I intend to do a write up with pictures on how to do the tear down. For you it might be a job for off season activity.

Damin69 has a good idea about pushing down on the rear of the seat just a bit faster than the side. As I was sitting there and constantly pushing down the seat I finally figured out the methodology of the second cable and the rear latch.

As the side bar on the seat enters the latch it pushes the latch part to the side and that pulls the cable that goes to the rear latch and releases the locking part on the rear latch. So if the side bar enters too quickly it may release the lock before the rear bar gets there and it can not enter at all. The rear down first motion may save you from a tear down.

I will do the tear down with comments, just don't know when. I will have the comments and photos of the latch areas soon.
.

This has turned into a false promise. Two weeks ago my PC was hit by a nasty virus. No way out of this one so I took it to a computer shop and had them cleanup and install, replace, Win7 for me. Next day they called and said it was cleaned. I went to the shop and all my files had been wiped out as well. So I came home, got my old PC working, had most of that PC on a running backup disc, but it is 6 months old. So after many days of finding what was missing and then running the old PC and back up disc till I found them to copy on a memory stick then copy from the memory stick into my newer PC. I am nearly done with all that now. Not all returned and never will be. So all the pictures I had taken of the tear down and cable routing have been lost. Sorry about that. At least the side and rear seat latches have been put on the forum already.

For those that have not done a tear down I will say that it is not as hard as it looks. Remove the seat. Take off the seat hinge bracket. Loosen the sides. Remove the panel at the back and take two screws out above the license plate. Find the cable connector on the right rear side and disconnect. Now you should be able to lift off the two sides as one and set down on the left side. Work the lock keeper off. Disconnect the cable. Lift the lock out of the cover hole. Now put the side panels out of the way to avoid damage.

Next is to take the battery out. Loosen the screws on the upper tub and lift it out of the way. There is still one more tub that can be removed but I did not need to for fixing the cables.

Sorry, no pictures for this assignment after all. I had a bunch but they are gone.

I thought I had a virus protection running on my newer laptop. Maybe I failed to keep it running. But now I have a full time running back up system on my new laptop. Bought it from Wal Mart for $28 dollars. A Western Digital my Passport Essential. Almost the same as the one on my older laptop. It worked well providing information for me to put on the new laptop. Some concerns though as they set themselves up to work with the particular PC they are connected to and don't much like starting on another PC. So it becomes attached to only one machine and that ends the portability I would like. So I will keep on looking for different ideas.

Keep your firewalls working all the time. The day I took mine to the shop he had two other that came in the day before I did. All had the same kind of problem.
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