New scooter died & won't idle - again. By HotStuff2 (Read 19,647 times)

[HotStuff2]

New user here - terrilee sent me.

But, I have a major problem; I've posted this on another board (I won't say which for now), but I'm getting no where and I'm now officially desperate.

Here's a condensed version of what's happened, and what I've done:

I have a Taotao CY150-A 150cc, which I bought on April 1 *very* slightly used (had 413Km on the clock), and I'm now up to just over 928Km.

1. ORIGINAL PROBLEM: Scooter died on side of road; replaced spark plug with NGK CR7HSA + new spark plug boot. Still wouldn’t start or idle.
2. After leaving scooter at the shop for 4 days, it started normally and ran fine; took it home. Replaced the fuel filter with high-quality one from the shop (also lengthened the hoses to make it easier to get to, but that shouldn’t cause an issue, no?)
a. There was one hose from the gas tank that went to nothing (was just hanging there); I took it off, but again, if it went to nothing, that shouldn’t cause anything, no?

3. Roughly ~1 week later (this past Friday), sitting at stop light, scooter died again. Was able to get it started, but would not idle (had to rev engine to keep it running), and was very sluggish at take off.
4. Got it home, checked spark plug (which was 9 days old) – very fouled, engine appears to be running WAY too rich. Unable to adjust A/F micture (screw is not there, just a brass cap, Taotao apparently capped it permanently?)
5. Checked valves (next morning when cold): intake & exhaust were completely closed. Set intake to .004 and exhaust to .004
a. Checked valves again the next morning (again when cold); intake was good (still .004), but exhaust was back to closed. Re-set exhaust to .005 (tight.)
6. Finally was able to get it started, but still wouldn’t idle properly.
a. When started, the engine revs very high UNLESS I hold the rear brake (which stops the rear wheel from spinning), and then it idles somewhat normally. Releasing the rear brake = very high RPMs & rear wheel spinning very rapidly.
7. After ~10 minutes of warm-up (enough time for the auto-choke / fuel enricher to shut off), the engine idles very slow and will stall. Attempting to adjust the idle screw does not help.
Also, there is a hose from the carb that appears to be a fuel exhaust; it will occasionally have a fairly large amount of fuel spill from it. This should not happen, correct? (I've been told this might be normal, but seems odd to me.)

Possible issues:

• Bad fuel pump?
• Vacuum lines routed improperly? Tech at your shop took off the CA emissions control and re-routed the lines; perhaps one or more is incorrect? I don’t know how to check that.
• Carb fouled? Carb jets not correct?
• Compression issue? (May need to check valve clearance again?)
• Fuel lines may need replacing? (Some websites state that the cheap Chinese lines break down easily and may clog things up.)
• Jet needle may need to be be adjusted to lean out the carb some? (If adjustable)
• CDI bad? (Planning to replace it with one that removes the rev limiter + advances the timing anyway.)

Just guessing here on the possible issues, based on reading the GY6 shop manual and searching online.

I was able to start it and drive it to the shop this morning (but had to keep the motor rev'ed or else it would die), but they're so backed up I had to make an appointment for next Tuesday.

Eric (manager at the local scooter shop I went to) said it might need a new carb, and that Taotao only warranties them for 90 days, so it out of warranty (of course) if that's the issue.

Strangely enough, there are two other Taotao CY150-A scooters here, one is a 2010 and the other is a 2012, and both seem to be doing the same exact thing.

[terrilee]

guys

this disabled vet needs help
im very busy today, but will be back in 6-7 hours

since i cant get on scoot puppy anymore
i cant help him

HOTSTUFF -- give em a few hours to get up and going

these guys are tech masters

like i told you they will help u until it runs
or u blow it up with a big block of C4

and u probaly wont ever go back to that other forum

[alleyoop]

Hotstuff,
First let me welcome you to the forum, good to have you here.
Terrilee asked me to look at your problem child. We jump we she talks or she will get the VOODOO doll out and start pricking us with the pins(HAHA).


Please take pictures of the Hoses that are on your scoot(where there coming from and where they are going to). Also around the Carb area.

When started cold due to the ENRICHER(feeding extra fuel) it should idle up around 2000 rpms but come back down to around 1500 or so rpms and the Rear Wheel should not spin at those rpms.

1. As far as the Fuel Ratio Screw being capped Drill the cap off and see if there is a screw behind the cap. You will never get it running right unless you are able to adjust the mixture.
Think of this way, You have nothing to loose, if there is a screw you just saved some money and will be able to adjust the carb and have it running right.
If there is NO screw behind the cap you will need to get a Carb with the screw available ANYWAYS, They are pretty cheap and will get your scoot running right. I have the same motor you do the 157QMJ. I have an aftermarket carb on it and runs like a top.
Alleyoop

[HotStuff2]

I have an appointment at the VA in an hour, and I have to ride my mountain bike there (which really sucks, it's havoc on my back, but way better than walking or standing around and waiting on the bus.)

When I get back I'll pull the seat off and take pics. I don't know if I can drill the cap out; other people have said that Taotao doesn't have an A/F screw any longer on their carbs, and the GY6 manuals even say that it's set at the factory.

I'm probably going to do some upgrades to the engine anyway, one of which would be a better carb (maybe even the cc upgrade kit), but not right away - first I need to try to get it running so I can just run around.

[alleyoop]

Great!! Don't worry about drilling it out and NOT finding a screw behind the plug. Like I said you have nothing to loose you need to be able to adjust the mixture. Don't forget they set them at the factory to run really lean to pass emissions other wise they will not let them into the country. Temperature changes and air density are killers on carbs and how your motor runs.

When it is COOL or COLD the motors need MORE FUEL when it is Warm or Hot the motors need LESS FUEL.
Here is a Video on how to drill out the Cap.
Alleyoop

[justbuggin2]

Alley is the carb gurru he will be able to get your scooter going fast enough to break the sound barrier

[HotStuff2]

I don't mean to sound argumentative, but I'd rather not drill it out - yet. My thinking is:

If they set it to run really lean, and I'm running too rich, something else (besides the A/F screw) has to be a problem.

Also, I'd rather get it just running, consistently, and then swap in a better carb (I don't mind spending a bit of money on a performance carb or something better than the stock.) But there are lots of these on the road, and everyone can't be drilling out the A/F screw.

Anyway, here are the photos of the engine, not sure how much they'll help.



The top larger hose goes to a canister, which goes to nothing - it just hangs there.








And yes, I'd love for the scooter to be able to go faster - 75+ or so would be great. Doable? I dunno, but hey, I'd settle for working and running reliably now.

[damin69]

from the looks of it it is just a cap over the adjuster. Just have to pop the cap off and there is probably and adjustment screw underneath.

[HotStuff2]

Where the A/F screw is here:



I have a brass plug, not a cap.

Or is it somewhere else and I'm looking in the wrong place? I searched all over and that's the only place I could find it should be.

[HotStuff2]

Looking over some of the sponsor's sites (for performance parts and whatnot...), I saw this for the intake manifold:

"If your having trouble keeping a steady idle, or it just dies, you've likely got an air leak here."

So I just went and took mine off - it's the stock rubber one - and while I don't see any cracks or anything that might indicate an air leak, the inside does have what looks to be a, well, "carbon streak" or something. Is this normal?

[HotStuff2]

So after putting the intake manifold back on, I figured I'd try and crank her up. Just as before, she revs to (I'm guessing based on my half-deaf ears) around ~3,000rpm or so (and spins the rear wheel, of course.) BUT, if I hold the rear brake, the RPMs settle down to what sounds like around ~1,500rpm - where I'd like it to stay.

After letting it warm up for a while, it basically goes down to around ~800rpm or so, sounding like it's just about to die (and does if I don't give it gas in a few moments.)

Adjusting the idle screw doesn't change either of these.

Sometimes, even after I'd let it warm up, the engine will suddenly idle higher, spinning the back wheel, then slow down too much (as I described.)

[terrilee]

STUFF

alot of the new models and urs is new
have the A/F screws covered so the consumer supposedly cant mess with it
they had to do this to to meet EPA standards, to pass PAIR standards
if u go back an look in scoot puppy,
lots of people have had to either.
pop the cap off
or drill it out. alot of times the screw is there, sometimes its not

your either gonna have to try that or order a new "old' type carb.
its nit gonna run with the fuel lean-ed out the way they are.

[alleyoop]

You said gas comes out of one of the hoses IS IT THIS ONE: If so it is Flooding and fouling the plug.
Alleyoop

[HotStuff2]

Correct, that is the hose.

[alleyoop]

Good, that means your float is NOT shutting off the fuel and it keeps on coming in and overflows. Did you ever take the carb off and take the CARB BOWL OFF?