2005 125 daelim scooter(money pit) By chekingese (Read 5,865 times)

[chekingese]

Hi larry from Lecanto, Fl. Bought this scooter last may,ran good for first month .Stopped running with my wife and I on it. Hasn't been right since.Had it checked out by a local shop. they replaced a large diaphram in the carb and had it starting by kick. It won't start with the starter. Sometimes it would start w/starter after it had been running by kick.They said the problem was in the wiring since all components checked out OK. Said it starts first kick,so since I couldn't afford any more diagnosis I took it with intention to kick start it. But, it stalls at intersections when I come to a stop.Have to put it on center stand and kick the s--- out of it. Not very Handy!!!One thing it did lately as I was trying to figure it out,was fire when I let off the starter button or when I first touch it. But not start.It has spark when cranking or kicking seems to be about the same intensity. I've checked all grounds I can find. I even added a ground to the frame and a second ground on all components that had anything to do with start/run ability.No help.The scooter isn't supposed to start with the kick stand down,but it would. No power but it would start.According to the wiring diagram there's only one wire coming out of the cdi box that has to do with the safetys. When really there are 2, A green w/wt tracer that changes to a green w/blk tracer isn't shown on the diagram. I haven't tracked it down yet. Is there an easy way to eliminate the safety circuit to see if its the problem?Will unplugging it from the cdi do it? It has been suggested that I pull the flywheel and check the wiring on the stator esp. the ground. Haven't had a chance to do that yet. Was sick all weekend.Getting real frustrating! Any thoughts??? Larry

[alleyoop]

Does this look like your CDI? If so you can pull the KILL WIRE from the CDI and see if the SPARK PLUG WILL SPARK.
Alleyoop




Or is it like the one on the RIGHT with only one WIRE?

[JR]

Welcome to the forum Larry and looks like from yur descripthe Daelim S2 is your scooter and I'm looking at the diagram right now.

thescooterprofessor.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=ncmanuals&action=display&thread=457


Since we've got to get started on figuring out what's wrong I'm going to move this thread to the proper category.

JR

[JR]

Ok let me make sure I understand even if it is hard to kick start it still will run? if so then there is nothing wrong with the CDI, stator and coil. If not then we''ll start from ground zero.

Now looking at this wiring diagram the way Daelim does it is wild! You said it would start with the kick stand down and if this is so then according to this diagram the kick stand switch is either stuck closed or has been juimped because it is fused and one side of it heads to the spark plug coil.

If the switch was working right it would not even fire with the kick stand down so again it's stuck closed or been jumped, a ohm meter will tell you.

Now on the electric start it's from what I see standard and the first test is to see if the starter is any good?

Turn the key on and carefully take a screw driver and jump the two main terminals on the relay and see if the starter turns it over, if it does then we need to test the relay to see if it's good or just got a bad wire or bad connection to it.

The starter realy will have a yellow/red wire which comes from the starter button and is a ground, yes ground wire. It also has a green/yellow wire which provides 12 volts with the key on and either one of the brake handles pressed. So do the brake lights work? The starter relay gets it's 12 volts off of the same wire that goes to your brake lights another safety thing as you can't start it without having a brake pressed.

So let's check the following;

(1) take a screw driver and jump the starter relay, this will tell us if the starter is good.
(2) unplug the small two wire plug to the starter relay (y/r and g/y)
(3) turn on key, put rubber band on brake handle to keep it pressed
(4) take volt meter and check for 12Vdc on green/yellow wire, if no voltage need to find out why
(5) take volt meter and put on lead on negative (ground) post on battery
(6) put other lead on red/yellow wire on starter relay
(7) set meter to ohms and press the start button, you should get full ohms resistance to ground, if not we got to find out why?

Now if the scooter is still running and runs like you say it does notonly does it have some starting issues electrically but it sounds like it's time for a valve adjustment on the poor running.

Do those tests and get back, we are here to ehlp!

JR

[chekingese]

Thanks for moving my story to the proper category. I'm not "college " educated so I misunderstood. Sorry.The starter cranks scoot don't start,When it runs it runs good. except for stalling issue.

[JR]

Hey I'm no college boy myself! Just a old hilbilly from Arkieland!

OK so again let me understand what you're saying;

(1) it will start even now with the kick starter
(2) it starts with the kick stand down when you kick start it
(3) the starter cranks the scooter over but it won't start? It will turn the starter over when you push the start button
(4) but when you do have it running it stalls? Does it stall all the time or on takeoff or say at a stop sign?

Stalling is a classic example of the scooter needing the valves adjusted. On the Daelim manual page the S2 service tells how to do this. This is a large PDF and the valve adjusting procedure starts on page 26 with pictures.

So if you can clarify the answers to my questions above I think I can figure out this no start issue with the electrics, if I can't I'll give it a heck of a try.

JR

[chekingese]

It would start kicking it,until I added some grounds. But I didn't fool with it much after that. I may have something grounded that shouldn't be.
I will try to mess with it again tomorrow to get fresh answers.It always would start with the kick down kicking or starter. Kick stand is in the way when kicking so I put on center stand.
#3 you are correct.
#4 mostly stalls at lights,stop signs,etc.After youv'e been running
The cdi is more similar to illus.#2 I think. The kill switch part has 2 wires really but my diagram shows only oneand it is like the a/c bottom illus.
By the way the scooter is a history model 125 cc

[alleyoop]

Well once it is running and all warmed up and it STALLS at stop signs and lights or when your RPMS drop THAT IS A CLASSIC SIGN of tight valves. Tight valves means you are looseing COMPRESSION which also makes them hard to start as well. When they get tight that means they are staying open just a little and not sealing all the way on the POWER STROKE.

So the Fist thing I would do is Adjust the Valves that will make it easier to start and not STALL on you after it gets hot.

Top Intake Valve set it to .004 Inches and the Bottom Exhaust to .005 Inches or .004 Inches either will work just fine.
Alleyoop

[JR]

Awesome now I know exactly what wiring diagram to use. The S1 History service manual will help with this scooter, again in the Daelim manual section. Now this manual is huge over 80mb!

First of all this scooter had a 4 pin DC powered CDI very odd, so that simply means dead battery no kick start........... and a weak battery that is not charging can make it run poorly.

Now I believe your side stand switch is for sure bad. If you look on the wiring diagram from the service manual you'll see it has a black 12Vdc wire going to it and has 12 volts when the ignition key is on and also a black/blue wire that goes to the CDI. When the side stand is in the up position it allows the voltage to go to the CDI and on page 185 of the manual you see that if you let the stand down the engine will stop simply because you have disconnected power to the CDI. The CDI feeds the spark plug coil.

The scooter should not start electrically or with the kick starter with the side stand down. You said it was in the way to kick start it and said it would start with it down also? I believe this switch is making enough contact at times for it to run.

Also this scooter will turn over with the key on, a brake handle pressed and the start button pushed but if the side stand switch is bad or not making contact it will not start! Reason? No power to the CDI thus no spark.

If you do have the history scooter then like a lot of people I think you've got the wrong diagram but wire colors vary sometimes so take a look at the diagram in the service manual.

Here is a sectioned out drawing of the side stand switch back and blue/black and it feed the DC powered CDI. I'm wondering if they altered something at the mechanic shop?



The manual gives the location of the switch and I would simply jump the two wires together and see if it will hit with the electric starter.

Some will tell you to discontinue it but I won't, one it has saved people from doing the old start my scooter and then find the side stand down, not pleasant sometimes and two if you have a yearly state inspection it might not pass if it is altered? If it's working like it should there is no issue to have it.

Now the manual also has pictures and gives the specs and step by step instructions on adjusting the valves and I do believe the stalling is adjustment related.


I think we're on the right track now.

JR

[chekingese]

Well you've answered one question I had. the kickstand switch makes the circuit when it is up. The funny thing is that when it is running andI put it down,it only runs poorly but doesn't kill.put it up and it runs good with power. This weekend I'll try all the good advice and get back to you. thanks

[chekingese]

I had the service manual originally from the previous owner, but my computer took a dump and I lost it.Can you email it to me or link or something. [e-mail] Thanks

[JR]

OH no! I'm on satellite internet and this manual is nearly 86Mb! If it even sent it at all it might take a week! LOl But go to the Daelim section here;

thescooterprofessor.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=ncmanuals&action=display&thread=457

Click on S1 125 service manual and you can save it to your computer, be patient again it's 86mb. You can then save it on disk or print it out if you have enough ink! LOl

I would replace thw switch and again adjust the valves and I thinky you'll be good to go.

BTW does it now start with the side stand up electrically with the starter? If not jump that switch out and try it.

JR

[alleyoop]

Yep, the switch is not working properly. As for the service manual you have the link to it but it is huge. You might have to start loading it before you go to bed and in the morning it will be loaded..lol
Alleyoop

[JR]

I just realized that I'm talking to the same people on two different forums. Which one should I stay with, And I'll stay off the other. Sorry I was desperate and clutching at straws. for help

Only that old rabbit Alley is on both! One of these days he'll straighten up! ;D



And I'll stay off the other
scooterdoc.proboards.com/index.cgi


If we can help you in any way just holler!

[alleyoop]

JR, that OLD RABBIT ALLEY is actually on ALL THREE except on one they do not know for sure(HAHA).
Alley