YY250T-2 Starter Doesn't Turn When Start Button is Pressed. By carefulrider (Read 3,258 times)

[carefulrider]

2006 , JMStar/Jonway VIVA YY250T-2, 244 cc (copy of Honda CN250 upright or vertically oriented) engine.

As stated in the subject line, when the starter button is pressed, the relay or solenoid does not click; it is completely silent. The ignition switch is on. The kill switch is off.  The brake light comes on when when either or both brake levers are pulled in. Battery is fully charged. The side stand is not down. Battery cable connections are tight. When I connect the terminals of the solenoid with a screwdriver the starter motor operates normally.

How should I test if the ignition key switch is good?
Does this model have a side stand switch?

I can't remember where I read that if I turn the key on and the lights come on, the diode is bad, that it's shorted across which is allowing the battery voltage to go to the headlights. In this scooter, the lights do come on when the ignition key is turned on. Please tell me where this diode is located, & how to recognize it.

Any other suggestions to get the starter motor to turn when the start button is pressed shall be most welcome.

[skyrider]

I think the condition you describe on the lights coming on is normal. That is how it worked on the one I had and also the Reflex that I ride now.
The first thing I would check is the starter relay which is located by the battery under the seat. Take a screwdriver and short between the two big terminals and make sure the starter works. If it does then it is a matter of following the circuit through to see which component failed or which connector in not making contact.

[JR]

Sept 15, 2014 8:36:39 GMT -6 carefulrider said:

2006 , JMStar/Jonway VIVA YY250T-2, 244 cc (copy of Honda CN250 upright or vertically oriented) engine.

As stated in the subject line, when the starter button is pressed, the relay or solenoid does not click; it is completely silent. The ignition switch is on. The kill switch is off.  The brake light comes on when when either or both brake levers are pulled in. Battery is fully charged. The side stand is not down. Battery cable connections are tight. When I connect the terminals of the solenoid with a screwdriver the starter motor operates normally.

How should I test if the ignition key switch is good?
Does this model have a side stand switch?

I can't remember where I read that if I turn the key on and the lights come on, the diode is bad, that it's shorted across which is allowing the battery voltage to go to the headlights. In this scooter, the lights do come on when the ignition key is turned on. Please tell me where this diode is located, & how to recognize it.

Any other suggestions to get the starter motor to turn when the start button is pressed shall be most welcome.

Ok you've done some very good tests, by checking the brake lights we know we have power on that side of the solenoid relay because with the key on and pressing the brake handle not only do you send power to the brake lights you send power to the solenoid relay. When pressing the start button you then send the ground side to the solenoid relay. This also tells us that the key switch is working properly.

In this case since you have crossed the solenoid with a screwdriver and the starter turns over we now know nothing is wrong with the starter.

Forget the lights and diode they have nothing to do with the starting of the scooter. So lets now make a list of the possibilities of what is wrong.

So here is the first thing we can do to eliminate the starter relay/solenoid. You may need to remove some plastics to expose things where it's easy to work on.

Unplug the little pigtail (small wires) on the starter solenoid/relay. Find you some wire or jumpers and hook one side of the plug to the battery negative ground (doesn't matter which wire) and then use a jumper to touch the other wire to the battery positive side. If the starter turns the engine over then we have eliminated another possibility, if it doesn't make a sound you need a new relay.

If the relay is good let us know and then we'll look into other possible problems and find the answer.

JR

[carefulrider]

It's taken me a couple of evenings to juggle domestic responsibilities & time devoted to the scoot.

I have suffered through the punishment of removing the plastic panels.

1. I noticed that the fuse that is connected to the positive battery terminal is 20 Amps. Should I replace it with a 15 Amp one?

2. The grounding wire for the starter is clean & shiny; no rust; not loose. I presume it is making a good ground connection.

3. Unplugged the 2-pin connector that leads out from the solenoid. With alligator clamps & wire, connected one pin of the connector to the negative terminal of the battery. With another pair of alligator clamps & wire, clamped one clamp to the second pin of the connector & touched the remaining clamp to the positive terminal of the battery. The starter motor did not turn on, but remained silent. Only a clicking sound emanated from the solenoid each time I touched the clamp to the positive terminal of the battery. Yikes!

What now?

[skyrider]

But did you short between the two big terminals of the starter solenoid? There are two large terminals, one wire goes to the positive battery and the other goes directly to the starter. Use a screwdriver and short between these two terminals. That will tell us if the starter works or not. First things first. You said the solenoid clicks but that doesn't tell if the solenoid is making contact inside. If you do this test and the starter works, my guess is that it is a bad solenoid. Do this simple test and let us know what happens and we can go from there.
That solenoid failed on the Jonway that I had.

[carefulrider]

Yes, before I did this test with the jumper wires connected between the wires that come out of the solenoid & the battery terminals, I did indeed connect the two terminals of the solenoid with a screwdriver & the starter motor turned.

So what is known to this point is:
1. The starter motor won't turn with the ignition key on, & starter button pressed.
2. The starter motor turns when the solenoid terminals are connected with a screw driver.
3. The solenoid emits a clicking sound when jumper wires are connected between the wires that come out of the solenoid & the battery terminals. The ignition key is not turned on. The starter motor does not turn while conducting this test.

Do I understand you correctly, that this indicates that the solenoid needs to be replaced?

[ellpee]

The "screwdriver test" effectively bypasses the solenoid, so if the starter cranks under those circumstances, the solenoid is certainly Suspect #1. Best I can tell from my YY250T wiring diagram, the SMALL wire coming to the solenoid should have 12v with key on/starter button depressed. If it DOES, then the solenoid has to be the problem. If it DOESN'T, then the starter button itself could be the problem. (My diagram says that wire is red and yellow, but that may not be the case with your scoot.) From one of your earlier posts I understand when you have the key on and depress the starter button, the solenoid doesn't even click; if that's so, it could indeed be the starter switch. But your experiment with the jumper wires bypassed the starter switch, effectively YOU were acting as the starter switch whenever you touched the jumper to the positive battery pole, and all you got from the solenoid was clicks, which again points to the solenoid. Good luck, these process-of-elimination things can be a bit frustrating, but you'll get there.

[alleyoop]

Yep, if trying to work the Solenoid using the Wires and it does nothing BUT jumping the outside terminals does spin the starter THEN YES the SOLENOID IS BAD no if's or but's about it.
Alleyoop

[carefulrider]

Thanks for your replies & encouragement, people. My home-work for this eve is to check the voltage at the connector, & see if a replacement solenoid will do the needful.

My impression, while working on this scoot with a cfmoto engine, is that it is not mechanic friendly as far as access-to-parts & components goes. Are the 250cc scoots equipped with the linhai engine easier to work on?

[JR]

Access to either engine is terrible. They are both solid reliable engines. You're doing a good job and you''l get it fixed!

JR

[carefulrider]

Thanks for the assistance. I have ordered a solenoid. I shall be silent for some weeks until it is delivered. Shall continue when it arrives. Enjoy the fall in your neck of the woods.

[carefulrider]

While waiting for the solenoid relay, I decided to continue with additional testing. As suggested, I connected the red & yellow wire coming to the solenoid from the wiring harness to the red (positive) cable/lead wire of my voltmeter. I connected the black (negative) cable/lead wire of the voltmeter to the same ground that the starter motor is grounded to. I then turned on the ignition switch & the volt meter registered 0.00. I then pressed in the starter button/switch & the reading on the voltmeter was 0.84. I then pressed the brake lever both individually & collectively together, with the starter switch pressed in. The volt meter registered 0.87V. This is less than 1 volt.

Does this indicate that the starter switch needs to be replaced? I do appreciate your help, without which I would not be able to proceed with this repair. Thanks again.

[alleyoop]

That is not what JR said to do. See the YELLOW and GREEN wire on the SOLENOID PLUG jump that to the positive post of the battery then ground the RED AND YELLOW wire in the plug. IF doing that does NOT spin the starter then the SOLENOID is bad. What happens inside the solenoid is the same when you touch both terminals on the outside. Inside the contact makes contact with both terminals allowing the 12v to pass to the TERMINAL hooked up to the starter.
Alleyoop

[ellpee]

Alley, pressing the start button is actually providing the GROUND for the solenoid, which closes it and allows juice through to the starter motor, ja? So the green/yellow should have constant 12v with key on? Just trying to understand.

[skyrider]

ellpee, I think you have that backwards. The starter switch gets its power from the brake lights, not the ground.