Post by felixthecat on May 26, 2014 18:40:55 GMT -6
Good evening everyone,
At my wits end here trying to figure this out. this my my first scooter and it ran without any charging issues last season. Started it up and made some repairs that were needed when I bought it only to find that Now the battery doesn't seem to be charging.
I went out and bought a new battery but this did not resolve the issue. Started checking through this form and found old posts that pointed me to the R/R and Diode however, Someone had told me that it should still run after you remove the battery once started. Hence, I have reason to beleive it may be the Stator. However after reading through the Honda reflex manual, I sitll have no bloody clue how to even get to the Stator coil to see what shape it may be in.
I seem to be getting about 30 ac volts when I test the cables I believe to be associated with the Stator. Other Posts I have read in here indicate that maybe a bit low.
Can anyone point me in the right direction for inspecting and replacing the Stator?
I wouldn't jump to conclusions just yet about the stator. First question is, is charging voltage making it as far as the battery. With engine running, put a voltmeter across the battery terminals and see if you see a voltage rise when you rev the engine. If so, it's a safe bet the stator-->R/R-->blocking diode are all working as intended.
If not, start working your way back down that circuit. Check the wires coming out of the blocking diode (engine running). It's supposed to let charging voltage through only when the battery needs help keeping up with electrical demand and maintaining its appropriate charge level, so it would probably be a good idea to turn on as many electrical gizmos as possible when doing that check. You should get 12v on both wires under those conditions -- one is juice coming in from the R/R, the other is juice out to battery.
If you get 12v on only one of those wires, the diode may be malfunctioning. Cheap, relatively easy replacement. If you get 12v on NEITHER wire, then the R/R is not putting out the necessary charging voltage. Two possibilities: R/R is bad, or R/R is not getting the needed ***A/C*** voltage from the stator.
About that A/C voltage, it comes to the R/R via three wires, probably yellow. You check them by using a voltmeter in the A/C setting to cross-connect those three yellow wires in every possible combination -- A to B, A to C, B to C. AC voltage will vary with RPM; on my Roketa scooter it's around 20v AC at idle and goes up in the 70's and what would be highway RPM. Key point, it should be more or less the same in all three combinations.
So by process of elimination, if you are not seeing 12v on the red wire out of the R/R, but the yellow wires from the stator all show the correct A/C voltage, it's the R/R that is your problem. If you are not seeing 12v out of the R/R but the yellow wires don't show good A/C voltage, then it is indeed time to look into your stator. (Of course the R/R could still be bad in that case, but you won't know until you get correct A/C coming in from the stator.)
The bummer about all this is that, assuming your scooter is like mine, getting at the R/R and diode and yellow stator wires involves removing the rear fender plastic, a chore I hate but no way around it unless you're triple-jointed. All that stuff is attached high on the right side frame underneath the plastic.
I'm attaching a .jpg of the wiring diagram I have for the YY250T; so far it has served me well when working on my Roketa.
Post by felixthecat on May 26, 2014 19:33:29 GMT -6
Thanks for the fast reply,
The scooter is a 2007 Jonway YY250T.
I tested the the other set of cables that come from the R/R looking for some sort of voltage, however it come out to less than a volt regardless of what one I touched. That was in my earlier tests. I had connected the cables that go from the Stator to the R/R and tested the cables that should be an output.
So With the voltage reading I was getting on Idle, I would assume the Stator is functioning then? Are scooters supposed to continue running even if you detach the battery while its running?
If the CDI is AC fed from the stator then yes the motor will keep running without a battery. IF the CDI is DC meaning it is fed from the Battery when you turn the KEY ON then if you disconnect the battery or the battery is bad the motor will not run. Alleyoop
...BAD TO THE BONE..
PST150H 62mm BBK, 60mm Crank, 16/37 Tranny Gears..MOW-POWER
Alleyoop and others will have to address the A/C CDI thing, but I rather doubt a switchout from D/C is possible -- certainly not easy or cheap.
As to testing the R/R output, you say you tested the three "out" wires with engine running and got little or no D/C voltage? That would be the three that are NOT yellow -- red, black, and green I believe, but the colors can vary. Anyhow, if you tested all three of those and none of them was showing 12v with the engine running, then seems to me either the R/R is bad or you're not getting the needed A/C voltage into the R/R via the three yellow wires, or both. Testing the yellow wires for correct A/C would be the next step. If you do those tests and don't get good strong A/C on all three, then your hunch about the stator was likely correct (of course there's always the possibility of just a loose or shorted yellow wire, if you're lucky). You can't tell definitively about the R/R until it's getting the A/C it needs.
Thank goodness, I've never had to drill down far enough to investigate those three yellow wires from the stator. But (assuming a D/C CDI) if the appropriate A/C voltage is flowing up those three wires, the next culprit has to be the R/R, which is failing in some way to convert that A/C voltage into the 12v it takes to recharge the battery as needed and to run the other D/C systems (headlights, horn, gauges, blinkers, etc.) while the motor is running.
This is a 3-phase stator, the three yellow wires are what you test. Charge the battery, unhook the 3 yellow wires and start the scooter. Test each wire from a pattern of
1 to 2 1 to 3 2 to 3
Do not test to ground. On each test you should have at idle 50Vac+ and revved up it should go as high as 120Vac. All three legs must test close to equal if not then it's time for a stator.
Interesting, JR. On my Roketa it's more like 20v/70v or thereabouts. Any chance that's why my charging system is lacking once the fan kicks in? Pre-fan, I now have it holding about 13.5v on the dashboard voltmeter while on the road, but as soon as the fan kicks in it drops to 12-12.5. Had not read previously that I should be seeing numbers like 120v across the stator wires.
Thanks everyone for the assist. The Stator was not the issue thankfully. Replaced the R/R and the relay and poof, 16.50 volts in idle with nothing on. 13.50 ish with everything and the kitchen sink running.
Unfortunately though, I thought I had all the maintenance done and went on a test ride to WV and back. 9 miles from home It seems to have over heated and the carburetor was smoking. Soooo now it wont start and had to tow it home. It sounds like its trying to turn over, and there is spark, however if I leave the seat open, I can smell the attempt. No banging can be heard from the engine which I suppose is a good thing, still have to take it all apart to find out what's what.