R/R and Temperature By ellpee (Read 2,467 times)

[ellpee]

Good link, thanks. Now trying to get my courage up to pull enough plastics so I can attack that fan.

UPDATE: so, Linhai fan and a couple LEDs for the running lights are on order, will see what effect the fan has before moving on to the rest of the bulbs. Will work on my courage factor in the meantime.

[ellpee]

OK, so the "Linhai fan" arrived today, and just hooking it up to a 12v battery, in runs fine. But it has no numbers stamped on it, nothing on the accompanying paperwork, nada, and before I get into the ordeal of replacing my OEM Roketa fan with this one, I;d really like to know how many amps the new one draws. Electro-gurus, how do I do that? I presume if I connect it direct to a 12v source, there's something I can do with my multimeter to ascertain the amp draw, but I have no idea what that would be. He-e-elp!!!

[JR]

The fan on my linhai as I mentioned earlier draws 2.75 amps. It is labeled as 33 watts. amps = watts div by volts.

33 div by 12 = 2.75. Crusier and others have already stated by their tests the OEM fan on your scooter kicks in right at 6 amps = 72watts.





JR

[ellpee]

Took the new Linhai fan to a shop today to check amp draw, showed about 3.5 - 3.8. Not as low as expected, but better than what I expect I'll see from the OEM fan.

Also went on a run, though, and at the end dashboard voltmeter showed barely 10, and sure enough, scoot would not start. Had to call for rescue; jumpering from a 12v truck battery got the scoot running and was able to limp home, but same old kaka with regard to charging system. Really getting tired of all this nonsense. Hoping new fan with less amp draw will make a difference, but not sure that's going to be enough.

[alleyoop]

I did not want to say anything, but I don't think it is your fan, Heck many have the same scoot and all is peachy keen with the OEM fan. I would look more at the R/R and Stator check those. Also but the Volt meter on the battery and see what it reads just seating there then start it up and see what it read then. Then Rev it up to around 4K and see what it reads. It should read 13+ at high rpms.
Alleyoop

[JR]

I will echo this only after you have properly charged the battery. Properly means 4 to 5 hour charge, let sit for 1 hour and check voltage. Must be at 12.5Vdc or higher. Need to take a reading on the 3 yellow wires from the stator with scooter running.

Also even if there is something wrong (stator R/R) and you fix it the fan and LED bulbs will still help this charging system for sure in the long run. You'll be able to ride in confidence that you'll make it back home each time.

Also the amp test on the fan will vary, with a very good hot battery it will be a lower amp reading.

JR

[ellpee]

Well, I had to go out of town unexpectedly, so won't be chasing this gremlin again any time soon. Battery charging situation on this: scoot has been on tender whenever not riding, consistently reading about 12.9 in the morning on my multimeter -- key off, engine not running. Key on (which in my case means headlights on), reading on multimeter and on dash voltmeter both over 12, maybe 12.4 -12.5 or thereabouts. Fire it up, reading still 12.3 or so; rev it, reading rises to at most 13.1, never seen it higher than that.

Checking the yellow wires will be easy enough when I can get to it, since I relocated the R/R under the seat, but what constitutes a good vs. bad reading? As I recall, when I did the rewiring I got a good reading across all three possible combinations of wires, and it rose as RPM increased (which makes sense), but offhand I don't remember what the actual numbers were.

Disregard, found a download from last winter that answers that in great detail.

[JR]

Ok next step is to read the AC volts on the yellow wires and let's see if the stator is putting out right. 13.1 will not cut it when the fan comes on.

JR

[ellpee]

Updating, finally got back to my Roketa and installed two LED bulbs in the front running lights. To my dismay, neither one lit up when I turned on the ignition. After considerable mumbling under my breath, I pulled the connectors again and reversed the bulbs in their sockets, and presto, nice bright lights. Who knew that unlike incandescent bulbs, LEDs are polarity-aware?

New fan is still sitting on my workbench, but today I'm going to test the yellow wires off the stator and see what's what there. Will also bite the bullet and buy LED replacements for all the turn and tail/brake lights, pricey but my Christmas present to myself. After that will see what the voltmeter says on an extended ride, followed by pulling plastic (argh!) and installing the already-bought fan, and after that if still not good, one of those killer $100 14-amp 2-year-guarantee batteries. I WILL solve this problem or die of frustration trying. Just knocking every piece of wood I see that I don't find stator issues.

YO, big question here though. Unlike the running lights, which are on continuously, I see that at least some of the sellers of LED replacements for turn signals sell them along with a "load resistor" or something like that. Believe I've read somewhere here that LED turn bulbs may blink too fast, or at least faster than normal, unless one has that resistor thingie installed in the circuit. Before I invest $50 or more, somebody with experience please counsel me on this resistor thing.

And then a smaller question. Presently my turn signals, front and back, appear to be 10W, and the tail/brake bulbs say 5W. LED ads don't always specify wattage, but when they do, I haven't found exact wattage equivalents. Have seen 3W, 13W, and higher numbers. Do I compromise in the direction of higher, or lower, or does it matter? Remember, the whole idea of all this is to reduce load on the battery and charging system. (Have also EMailed one of the sellers asking about this, will post any wisdom they have to offer.)

[ellpee]

Late morning progress report: Checked the yellow stator wires for AC voltage, and got about 22v at idle, up into the 60's at high rpm, so it would seem no stator issues (right, gurus?). Had it running on battery only for quite some time, so am trickle-charging it now before seeing what the charge state looks like on the voltmeter with the only change being two LEDs.

While testing, I got to wondering if there is any difference between the three yellow wires, or do they all just carry an identical burst of current when the stator rotates to the appropriate position? I ask in case I ever get confused about which is which -- remember I relocated my R/R under the seat, and had to cut and extend those three wires to do so. (If it tells anybody anything, wire sequence as they go into the R/R is green-yellow-yellow-yellow-white-black.)

NEXT MORNING: On tender all night, ~20 hours? Key on, voltmeter shows ~11.5 - 11.7 (headlights, running lights, gauges on). Start engine, just over 12v. Increase rpm, up to just shy of 13v, but no higher (and fan not yet on at this point). So charging circuit is working, but adding just two LEDs made little difference. As soon as I find all the right LEDs I'll switch the rest and see what's what. If still marginal, time to do that darn fan, although when the fan isn't even running, I still can't get the voltmeter over 13v.

[rich46]

I have changed to to LEDs on turn signals, with no increased blinking, but brighter lights. Also changed tail & brake lites, also brighter with less
wattage use. Added 24 LEDs on front running lites. This was six months ago. Hope this helps.

[ellpee]

Dec 15, 2013 17:28:18 GMT -6 rich46 said:

I have changed to to LEDs on turn signals, with no increased blinking, but brighter lights. Also changed tail & brake lites, also brighter with less
wattage use. Added 24 LEDs on front running lites. This was six months ago. Hope this helps.

Does indeed help, though other input still welcome.

Test run today, couple hours, several stops, enroute voltmeter hung in in the mid-12's, except at one point when I was putt-putting around a big parking lot for several minutes at which point it looked like voltage was dropping, so I got nervous and headed for home. Enroute back home at 40mph or so, though, again in the mid-12's.

[ellpee]

FWIW, LED supplier Warden says in turn signals LEDs do require load resistors. Go figure.

Evening update: went on a ~40-mile run this afternoon, with battery having fully charged overnight. Outbound, voltmeter said about 12.3-12.5 until the fan kicked in, then promptly dropped to about 11.5-11.7. When speed and airflow allowed temperature to drop and fan shut off, voltmeter again slightly above 12, but it was clearly losing ground. At first destination, shut down for maybe 20 minutes. Came back out, scoot started and voltmeter again said about 12.3 at first, then dropped below 12 as engine warmed up enough to turn on the fan. Charging system seemed able to hold about 11.5 with the fan running. However, made the fatal mistake of stopping at an auto parts store to check for LED bulbs (they had none). Came back out, key on, voltmeter read about 8.5 and scoot wouldn't even crank. So I bought a second battery! Got home okay with that, but same charging performance. Will be keeping that second battery in the trunk, fully charged, as a backup until I get this charging problem fixed once and for all. Seems pretty clear to me, though, that the fan is indeed the culprit -- when it kicks on, voltage drops below 12, when it shuts off again, voltage again slightly over 12. The longer I drive, though, the lower the battery drops, and I don't dare shut off the engine or the odds are very good she won't have enough oomph left to crank again. I still plan to replace the other six running lights with LEDs, but it looks very much like nothing short of replacing that fan is going to fix the problem. In the meantime, I expect to become very proficient at switching out the battery.