Ice Bear Trikes in General By ellpee (Read 4,257 times)

[ellpee]

NEXT MORNING: Well, I did get the Magnum to start; took several 10-second cranks and full throttle, but started. It's running very rough at idle, though, and dies if I don't nurse the throttle a bit. Guess my two full turns from zero on the mixture screw wasn't the right answer, but I'm not gonna mess with that until I get the tach I just ordered. I just don't have "the ear" for it otherwise.

Tried spraying some carb cleaner in the air intake with engine running, no noticeable difference. Also noticed that the idle screw doesn't seem to produce an even result; can give it a couple full turns and nothing, but then if I "bump" the throttle SOMETIMES it suddenly idles much faster. Stuck butterfly? Stuck something else? Puzzling. Anyhow, I've asked my dealer to get me the information from Ice Bear about OEM jets and rollers and IB's recommendation for those parts for high altitude operation. He owes me big time for all the screwups on my order and shipment, so we'll see how that goes -- he did at least confirm that he forwarded my questions. Don't suppose this will qualify as a warranty thing, but maybe the dealer will suck up any cost -- when pigs fly.

[alleyoop]

Well Ice Bear may send you the parts but for sure they will charge you for shipping ;D
Alleyoop

[ellpee]

Fine, TBD. Anything Ice Bear is willing to do is okay with me. Since I was not talking directly to them during the buying process, they were never made aware that this particular Magnum would be running at high altitude, so I don't have a reasonable gripe with them, although help from them would qualify as good customer relations. Possibly Dealer X, who at least got some inklings that I live in the mountains, should have been more proactive about informing Ice Bear so the scoot would arrive tweaked for high altitude. But then he never even asked them to do the PDI I feel I had paid for, much less any fine tuning for different operating conditions. Chances are I have bought the last scooter in my lifetime, but trust me when I say that I will never again buy through a dealer who is not in my town, with a showroom I can walk into and a maintenance department I can visit, and mechanics I can actually talk to in person. (Sorry, Jim, I love walleye but I ain't movin' to Wisconsin!).

Anyhow, I did go down and talk to the other shop in our village; judging from the somewhat rustic surroundings, they work on all sorts of cycles, scooters, ATVs, chain saws, and anything else with a small gas engine. Described my troubles, and he agreed that it sounds like time for new higher-altitude jets, of which he has a considerable stock and he feels 95% certain he'll have the ones I need.

At this juncture, therefore, my plan is to await technical feedback from Ice Bear via my dealer, then either order the parts I need and take them to the local guy, or just take it to the local guy and hope he stocks the necessary jets for my carb. (He seems to think the carbs are somewhat generic and it's likely he has the right jets in stock.) While all that is unfolding I'll of course be checking in here frequently to see what additional wisdom I can garner.

[alleyoop]

Well I would not EXPECT any info from ICE BEAR concerning the right jets for different climates. They do not have professional mechanics with the proper equipment to tune a motor for different climates. Also on most the CARBS Fuel Ratio Mixture come plugged to run LEAN to pass emissions and THEY CANNOT UNPLUG it would be illegal for them to do so.

So I would go with your shop mechanic and go for it.
Alleyoop

[ellpee]

Well, that matches my experience; before local shop #1 could do anything at all with the mixture he had to remove that plug. After talking to local shop #2 today I am guardedly optimistic that he has broader experience and a pretty good stock of things like jets. He did tell me that, although he thinks he can get it running much better at our altitudes, there's no way it will perform up here in the stratosphere like it would in California or Kansas. I can live with that (not that I have a choice), as long as it's reliable and performs adequately on our mostly secondary highways.

Surprised to read, though, that you think Ice Bear will not have the info I need. One of the hazards of buying Chinese, I guess. Everybody's just a front man for somebody else, and nobody actually knows anything except the price.

[alleyoop]

They are IMPORTERS not mechanics, they want to sell their products to dealers they do not want anything to do with dealing with individual customers that they leave to the dealers.

I would bet the people they have doing a PDI are young folks that one guy showed them what to check and how. I do not believe they hired a top notch mechanic. The PDI really does not involve any mechanical skills just making sure nothing is so loose it will fall off. Changing oil a 10 year old can do if you show him how. People really expect a lot when they pay for a PDI but most will not even attempt to start the motor.
Alleyoop

[rapidjim]

Aug 5, 2013 19:15:28 GMT -6 alleyoop said:

They are IMPORTERS not mechanics, they want to sell their products to dealers they do not want anything to do with dealing with individual customers that they leave to the dealers.

I would bet the people they have doing a PDI are young folks that one guy showed them what to check and how. I do not believe they hired a top notch mechanic. The PDI really does not involve any mechanical skills just making sure nothing is so loose it will fall off. Changing oil a 10 year old can do if you show him how. People really expect a lot when they pay for a PDI but most will not even attempt to start the motor.
Alleyoop

I agree with your statement about being importers and relying on their dealers just like any other importer, distributor or Detroit, where I disagree with your statement about being young folks doing the PDIs. The individual at IB in CA is a mechanic but sadly he does not speak english very well at all, speaks excellant Chinese. And yes the machines are supposed to be started and the carb set.

Ice Bear PDI





Here is the check list that Ice Bear (CA) uses for their PDI

1. Assemble all fenders and parts using locktite.______
2.Change engine oil and gear oil _____
3. Tighten axle nuts_____
4.Tighten brake rotor and sprocket bolts_____
5. Tighten handle bar bolts____
6. Tighten steering stem nuts_____
7.Check brakes and brake lever adjustment_____
8.Check throttle adjustment_____
9. Check chain/belt tension and adjustment____
10. Check tire pressure_____
11. Charge battery____
12.Tighten kickstand and center stand_____
13. Check pull start and kick start_____
14. Set idle adjustment________
15. Check all fuel lines____
16. Check all eletrical connections____
17. Check all lights_____
18. Check killswitch ______
Signature___________________________________________ Date

I am not saying they are perfect, nor am I saying that mistakes are not made. We are all human.

Jim

[alleyoop]

Ah come on jim the damn scoots come with the Carb plugged up so tell me how they adjust the carb. It would be illegal for them to mess with the carb.

And anyone can see the PDI, CHECK, CHECK ,CHECK, TIGHTEN, TIGHTEN, TIGHEN and change oil, no real skills needed for that my friend.
Alleyoop

[ellpee]

Well, Alley, in fairness, nothing in the checklist says anything about mixture, only idle. And of course what mine needs goes well beyond that checklist, although I'd have been glad to pay an extra hundred or two to have it all done before delivery. Then again, when your warehouse is near sea level, how do you tweak and test a scoot for 7000' operation? They'd need a pressure chamber or something. Just sending the recommended parts with the scoot would be a big plus, of course.

As to leaving that stuff to the dealers, yeah, right. Mine is in Georgia, and based on my recent experiences I wouldn't bet that he has anything more than a POB and a website. As I reported, he didn't even pretend to know the answers to my jet/roller questions, just immediately sent them on to Ice Bear. Even Jim Of The Golden Reputation is 1500 miles from me, so while he can provide parts and certainly does provide good advice (for which I'm duly grateful), I'm still left to my own devices for actually doing the work or getting it done for me.

[alleyoop]

No brand scooter dealer will touch a chinese scoot unless your town has a shop that has a backroom and sells them. If not your on your own, you may find a Lawnmower and Snowblower shop that will work on it for you. Most of your bigger snowblowers work just like a scooter motor and electricals.

I talked to one dealer and asked why they would not work on them that they are all the same thing just that the brand scooters are of better quality but they all work sameo sameo.
Same TYPE of parts are required so what is the problem. He said it takes to long to get parts for the chinese scoots and they would take up space in their shop waiting for parts.

I told him have the customer bring it in Diagnose the problem tell the client what parts to get and have him haul it away until he gets the parts then bring it back and they will work on it.
He said that is not a bad idea, I said you are loosing money turning down work and this way you just charge him for labor.
Alleyoop

[ellpee]

Cynic that I am, I'm inclined to think there's a certain amount of "If I refuse to work on that Chinese crap they'll buy my Honda (or Burgman, or Piaggio, or whatever) scooter instead." Here in Ruidoso the fat-tire four-wheel ATVs are big, and from looking at them at my local guy's shop they appear to have very similar engines and drive train (although some have manual shifting instead of CVT). Fortunately, snowmobiles ain't happening, neither in Ruidoso nor in Tucson in the winter months. Relatively little snow here, almost zero in Tucson. Anyhow, I went into the Chinese thing with my eyes wide open -- got two scoots for not much more than the price of one new Helix, so I'm not complaining.

UPDATE After posting that last I couldn't resist, so I went online and researched some of the "big names" in the Chinese scoot" DEALER (not distributor) world, and lo and behold, NONE of them appear to have an actual store/showroom/maintenance facility! Maybe I just missed the ones that do, but every single one I checked out, using the address available on the Internet, appears to be working out of their home. Nothing wrong with that, free market capitalism and all that, but based on my findings I would certainly caution future scooter shoppers to do what I did before deciding with whom they want to do business.

[rapidjim]

Aug 5, 2013 20:13:47 GMT -6 alleyoop said:

Ah come on jim the damn scoots come with the Carb plugged up so tell me how they adjust the carb. It would be illegal for them to mess with the carb.

And anyone can see the PDI, CHECK, CHECK ,CHECK, TIGHTEN, TIGHTEN, TIGHEN and change oil, no real skills needed for that my friend.
Alleyoop

DO you see any where in the checklist that says adjust carb air/fuel? No it says idle adjust.

Jim

[alleyoop]

That is exactly what I mean, Idle adjust is not going to make the motor get the right amount of fuel to air mixture. I just wanted to point out the money someone pays for a PDI is really not worth the money and gives the customer wrong expectations. Motors need to be adjusted for the climate they will be running in. Take your old cars with carbs same problem now all fuel delivery and timing is computer controlled and can make changes on the fly for the different climates, temps changes people will be driving in.

I remember back in 1960s my wife and I drove to Las Vegas went through Denver. I had a 1967 Buick Wildcat Big 455 motor and going through the mountains was a pain, no power could not even pass a Semi which was in front of me.
Alleyoop

[ellpee]

Seems like what's lacking for Chinese scooters in general is a dealer network -- a REAL dealer network, with a showroom and a parts counter and a service department with real, knowledgeable mechanics. If Honda and some of the other biggies can do it, hopefully the day will come when China will do it too. Of course when the exact same scooter is being marketed in the US under half a dozen brand names, it gets complicated. Maybe there's a niche market opportunity there -- "Chinese Scoots R Us" or something, parts and competent mechanics for anything and everything made by Linhai, or Zhenjeng, or whatever. Entrepreneurs, where are you? Heaven knows we have plenty of people making a buck just selling them, what the world needs now is a reputable, knowledgeable service network.

[alleyoop]

You got it Ellpee, maybe someday, but like you said there are so many FLAVORS of scoots being put out makes it tough for someone to open a service department to try and carry every part for every Flavor of scoot.
Alleyoop