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Post by scootaway on Jul 12, 2012 8:06:00 GMT -6
hi there hope you all having a splendid day. Please help if you can.
I was checking the charge rate with a voltmeter with head lights on/off. The headlights suddenly went off and they won't come back on. Turn lights are working and when I press the pass switch the high beams will still come on but not via the switch. Even the dash lights are dead but clock and gas meter still working. No fuses blown unless there are hidden ones. This is the Jonway cf moto yy250t.
I took the light switch apart and found nothing wrong and no loose connections behind the light cluster either. I am baffled
Why would the lights suddenly stop working for no apparent reason.
Any suggestions
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Post by tvnacman on Jul 12, 2012 8:45:01 GMT -6
Locate your regulator unplug it check for acv . Let us know how many wires on your regulator.
John
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Post by scootaway on Jul 12, 2012 10:50:19 GMT -6
Which one is the regulator, the little black squared thing with two plugs going in (one been bigger than the other) or is it the one with the cooling blades on it. There is a rectifier and a regulator and I don't always know which is which.
This scooter has the light switch and my lights/fan can go on without the motor running, just by turning the ignition on.
What is acv?
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Post by tvnacman on Jul 12, 2012 11:15:54 GMT -6
Regulator is with cooling fins . How many wires?
John
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Post by JR on Jul 12, 2012 11:47:55 GMT -6
Scootaway I haven't forgot you I'm looking at the diagrams and will get back.
JR
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Post by JR on Jul 12, 2012 12:45:03 GMT -6
Which one is the regulator, the little black squared thing with two plugs going in (one been bigger than the other) or is it the one with the cooling blades on it. There is a rectifier and a regulator and I don't always know which is which. This scooter has the light switch and my lights/fan can go on without the motor running, just by turning the ignition on. What is acv? No the scooter does not have a rectifier and a regulator seperate, but I'm trying to determine which wiring version you have? We have 4 versions of this scooter in the tech library and I'vew worked with people on all four and it's very possible we may have a fifth, only time will tell with workiong with your scooter and if it is indeed a fifth type we will draw it and list it. Here are the four versions look them over; thescooterprofessor.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=250g&action=display&thread=430We know for a fact it's not the Linhai and it looks like to me it's the last one but here is a picture of the R/R and right besdie it is the blocking diode that is on some versions:  Is this what you have? If so then we indeed have another version but don't worry scootaway we'll figure it out. I've got to be gone for a few hours will then be back and I'll check in on you and I'll give you some ideas of what to check. JR |
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Post by scootaway on Jul 12, 2012 13:57:28 GMT -6
Thanx JR and John. I can't say i have seen that silver metal diode on mine but it has the regulator with the cooling fins as well as the other black box with the white plugs.
JR I had a look at those versions especially the euro one which has a light switch but it is a little Greek to me. Also my scooter does not have a side stand cut off switch.
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Post by cruiser on Jul 12, 2012 14:59:58 GMT -6
Thanx JR and John. I can't say i have seen that silver metal diode on mine but it has the regulator with the cooling fins as well as the other black box with the white plugs. JR I had a look at those versions especially the euro one which has a light switch but it is a little Greek to me. Also my scooter does not have a side stand cut off switch. I have a 2008 Jonway YY250T. Here is a picture of the regulator/rectifier (large heat sink thing). To the left is the blocking diode (small heat sink thing). To the right is the CDI. Let us know how this compares with your setup. All this is located just above the muffler on by scoot.  |
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Post by JR on Jul 12, 2012 20:23:11 GMT -6
Thanx JR and John. I can't say i have seen that silver metal diode on mine but it has the regulator with the cooling fins as well as the other black box with the white plugs. JR I had a look at those versions especially the euro one which has a light switch but it is a little Greek to me. Also my scooter does not have a side stand cut off switch. Don't worry about that I suspected you didn't have the diode because I've yet to see one with the diode and a light on/off switch, they just don't go together. Also that black box is just as Cruiser said the CDI. Now we're starting to get somewhere and this also puts us to one of the bottom two diagrams minus the side stand switch which is no big deal. After all the smoke clears we'll decide what is on your scooter and if we need to we'll draw another version of this scooter's electrical. Now you say you were testing the battery charging when all of this occurred? Have you had a battery issue? Also the bits of info you gave tells me that your scooter's system is like one of the bottom diagrams because your fan, lights and other things work with just the key on. Also if your scooter has the main 15A fuse off of the key switch it is good because the passing light that still works on the high beams feeds off of that fuse. What is my initial feeling is when you were working in the area of the battery you have accidentally moved the wire to the light circuit that feeds them and there is a very bad connection and you disturbed it in a way that exposed the bad connection and it finally quit working. The tail lights should be on the same circuit with the instrument lights and head lights also. Let us know if the picture Cruiser sent is right and we can go from there. JR |
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Post by scootaway on Jul 13, 2012 5:08:03 GMT -6
 Problem sorted. I couldn't get to some wire clusters in the front so I pulled the suspect cluster (going to the switch) out backwards next to steering shaft and once I had them out the burned wires stared my in the face and apologized. I think they rubbed against something and it had to fail at some point. Cleaned and taped it and all is well. JR you did ask if I was having battery/charging problems. Well yes and no. battery is fine, charge rate a little low for my liking but once the wires were fixed I set about to clean the six wires coming out the R/R and ensuring that there is a sound connection. Charge rate now at idle is about 14.24 and when I increase the refs it goes up to 14.33. With the main lights on it drops to about 13.82 and when I start her up the volts drop to 11.72. I think those figures are rather healthy, would you guys agree? |
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Post by JR on Jul 13, 2012 5:32:51 GMT -6
Do you mean 11.72 for just a minute after you start it and it climbs back up? 13.82Vdc with the lights on is a good charging rate but when the fan comes on you're going to lose a lot of ground, in fact you need to let the fan come on and test it then. Also you are not gaing much from idle at 14.24 to 14.33 Vdc. check the charge rate at 5k RPM.
Now that you have found the bad wires I suspect you have more, rubbing wires equals excessive amp load equals other burned connections and then poor connections. If I were you I would go through the harness from the R/R to the fan to the fuse box and the dimmer switch.
Got to remember Scootaway this scooter is a DC powered CDI system which simply means you get the power to the CDI from the battery, if the battery charge drops under 12Vdc very much this scooter will not run, the CDI demands a DC rate of 11.5Vdc or higher to send enough voltage to the coil so that the sparkplug will fire.
JR
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Post by scootaway on Jul 13, 2012 9:23:56 GMT -6
JR the volts before starting is 12.81 and then at the moment of cranking just before the engine fires up it drops to 11.72 and jumps back up to 14.24 and then when I ref her up it increases to 14.33. I agree it is not a big increase and I would like to see about 14.50 or there about. Would you suggest a better type R/R is fitted. I actually checked continuity between the wires coming out of the RR and there is no continuity which is as I understand it a sign of a healthy RR.
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Post by tvnacman on Jul 13, 2012 9:41:17 GMT -6
when your lights are on what is the charging voltage reved up ?
That is a 7 pin regulator the black wire is a feed back line to keep the voltage over 14vdc and under 14.5vdc . 14.2vdc is good and I agree 14.5vdc is ideal but the QC on the regulators is poor . When you rev to check voltage hold it reved for at least 30 seconds . Give it a chance to climb . When I check stators it takes time for the acv to climb , so it will take a little time for the dcv out of the regulator to climb , if it is not being held down by the feedback line . I think yours is . When your load increases the regulator will sense it and increase the output . I don't think it is a problem . If you wanted to try a different 7 pic regulator for an increase in output of .2 or .3 would be hit or miss at best .
You might get better increase by using larger wire for your lights and power wires and also larger ground wires . the gain is very small may not be worth the effort .
John
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Post by JR on Jul 13, 2012 11:29:37 GMT -6
TV has made some very good points Scootaway but it's a 6-pinn R/R and not 7, still no big deal.
12.81 means a good hot battery and I don't know your riding conditions, I would say that with your battery being good like that you fan must not come on too much and let's remember that the small increse is due partly by the fact the R/R has to help carry the load of the lights, fan and other things through the battery insteads of the lights being on the AC side like some.
If you're having no dead or weak battery issues then especially since you found this burned up wire problems and I had the scooter apart I would fully inspect the wires from the R/R to the battery, lights and fan and I would highly consider replacing some of these wires with heavier gauge wire including the red wire from the battery to the key switch.
Many people have done this, a easy and cheap way to help the scooter plus go to LED's and you'll find you probably will gain some more charging volts. Every little bit helps.
JR
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Post by tvnacman on Jul 13, 2012 11:59:08 GMT -6
If it is 6pin then the regulator is at max dcv output all the time . It might be worth changing to 7pin regulator because of the feedback line for output control . As the charging voltage goes down the feedback line sees it and adjusts the output of the regulator . The feedback line works in two good ways it will increase and decrease output based on system voltage .
John
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