Voltage regulator??? By lennie11b (Read 8,763 times)

[lennie11b]

Well my running lights don't work they run off im guessing ac. My high beams work they run off DC. I changed the switch and that did not work. So i noticed my regulator is getting hot and my battery is not charging so what do you guys think. Thanks for the help

[JR]

First of all welcome to the forum! . Seconmd of all what kind of scooter are we talking about? Third unless you have a very odd scooter or someone has changed it they don't mix, if the running lights are AC the high AND lo beam should be AC.

Voltage regulator or R/R gettting hot could be a sign of being bad or overloaded? Give me the model, year and make of the scooter and we'll go from there.


Also the number of pins on the R/R and wire colors on it or what plugs into it.
JR

[alleyoop]

Yea, sounds like the R/R went south to get some sun.
Alleyoop

[tvnacman]

Well it could be off for memorial day .

Just kidding

Welcome to the forum . We need to know at the very least the year of the scooter engine size and how many pins the regulator is . We can give some choices of what to do .

John

[lennie11b]

well thanks for the reply my scoot is a 2008 jonway 150cc i believe it is a 6 wire 2 plug regulator. looks like yellow wires a red and a few others. the scoot had this problem when i bought it a week ago. It has 81 miles so i guess it sat a while. I'm just now learning so any tips would help
THANKS

[alleyoop]

Look at yours and match it up: Scroll down to the 6 pin ones:
Alleyoop
.monsterscooterparts.com/rectifiers.html?gclid=CKrMg-qPnbACFbEBQAodjE1SWw" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">.monsterscooterparts.com/rectifiers.html?gclid=CKrMg-qPnbACFbEBQAodjE1SWw

[lennie11b]

Yeah i ordered one that looks and match's the one on there do you think that could be my problem with my lights?

[cruiser]

Welcome to the forum, lennie11b. The 6 wire regulator/rectifier means that you have a full DC system and all the lights work on DC. If only some of the lights come on when the headlight is on, it means there may be an open circuit.

With the key turned off, check for battery voltage at the red wire of the plug on the regulator/rectifier (R/R). This is the output of the R/R so when the engine is running the DC voltage should be at least 13.5 volts which you should be able to see also on the positive terminal of the battery. If there is no DC on the red wire, then you have an open circuit between the battery and the R/R. If there is DC, but it does not increase or drops when the engine is running, then there is a problem with the R/R. This could be a problem with the connectors at the R/R. The connector with the 3 yellows sometimes overheats and may not feed AC into the R/R. If the connectors check out OK, then the R/R probably really went south.

Let us know how your voltage checks turn out.

[tvnacman]

May 25, 2012 22:59:01 GMT -6 cruiser said:

Welcome to the forum, lennie11b. The 6 wire regulator/rectifier means that you have a full DC system and all the lights work on DC. If only some of the lights come on when the headlight is on, it means there may be an open circuit.

With the key turned off, check for battery voltage at the red wire of the plug on the regulator/rectifier (R/R). This is the output of the R/R so when the engine is running the DC voltage should be at least 13.5 volts which you should be able to see also on the positive terminal of the battery. If there is no DC on the red wire, then you have an open circuit between the battery and the R/R. If there is DC, but it does not increase or drops when the engine is running, then there is a problem with the R/R. This could be a problem with the connectors at the R/R. The connector with the 3 yellows sometimes overheats and may not feed AC into the R/R. If the connectors check out OK, then the R/R probably really went south.

Let us know how your voltage checks turn out.

The ACV measurments on the yellow wires when plugged in , are not really telling you anything . When the AC input to the regulator is connected to the regulator from the stator . The readings are some what wild . The regulator is clamping down the ac to control DCV output , it a balanceing act. What is not needed for DC output will be dumped to ground .

[tvnacman]

My concern here is that there could be a flaw from the factory , thats why it never worked . I would have checked the stator output before ordering any parts . Number one rule in trouble shooting is never take anything for granted . It has been stated before the grounds need to be checked , battery , frame , engine , clean up the connections inspect the crips for the ground leads . Be sure the connections are making good mechical connection . Also check under the regulator , some regulators make ground where they are mounted .

John

[JR]

May 25, 2012 22:59:01 GMT -6 cruiser said:

Welcome to the forum, lennie11b. The 6 wire regulator/rectifier means that you have a full DC system and all the lights work on DC. If only some of the lights come on when the headlight is on, it means there may be an open circuit.

With the key turned off, check for battery voltage at the red wire of the plug on the regulator/rectifier (R/R). This is the output of the R/R so when the engine is running the DC voltage should be at least 13.5 volts which you should be able to see also on the positive terminal of the battery. If there is no DC on the red wire, then you have an open circuit between the battery and the R/R. If there is DC, but it does not increase or drops when the engine is running, then there is a problem with the R/R. This could be a problem with the connectors at the R/R. The connector with the 3 yellows sometimes overheats and may not feed AC into the R/R. If the connectors check out OK, then the R/R probably really went south.

Let us know how your voltage checks turn out.

Not necessarily so? I just helped a member in California get his ZNEN 150 going with a 6-wire R/R and the lights are AC, the main feed wire to the light on/off switch ties in right on one of the stator wires, got the wiring diagram directly from the manual to prove it.

I've always related that if one has a on/off headlight switch then the system is DC fed but on the ZNEN it has a on/off headlight switch which will shut the AC fed headlights off but the tail lights on the same switch run off of DC, it is wild! I'm going to get it downloaded to my server and post it as soon as I can.

So now I'm going to ask some things of the poster;

Does it have a head/tail light on/off switch?
You said you changed this switch again was this a on/off switch or the hi/lo beam switch?
Do you have a manual for this scooter and is there a wiring diagram for it in the back of it? Sometimes they are unclear and hard to read but generally I can put them on my computer and enhance them and clear them up plus I've read so many of them I have got good at knowing what each item is even if it's in Chinese or another language.

Jonway is like ZNEN they are tough to get manuals and info on, they close their info site to just their dealers even though you can access it you must have a dealer login in to get information. I've got a buddy who I know is a dealer and he's just out of touch right now but as soon as we hook up I"m going to get the scoop on all of the Jonway scooters.

So it's possible that this member's scooter is like the ZNEN I just dealt with?

Doesn't matter if you can tell us the things we need to know and even give us some photos we'll work this out.

Yes the R/R may be bad but I don't like to start throwing parts at stuff without simple and free tests first. Again don't need I think on the R/R wire colors, if it's 6-wire the yellows are a given but want to know the other 3 exactly and also want to know the wire colors on the CDI.

You need to make sure the battery is fully charged so it will start and take voltage readings on the 3 yellow wires not to ground but yellow to yellow all 3 combinations and report your findings. Unplug the R/R start the scooter and do this test. Since this is a 150 it is either a 11 pole stator or 12 and most of the time the 12 pole stator relates to the odd GY-6B engine on the 16" wheel scooters. 11 pole voltage readins should be like this;

11-Pole stator, voltages from stator harness at idle.
With all wiring correctly installed: Attach ground lead of multimeter to the green wire coming from the stator, and the positive meter lead to one of the three yellow wires coming from the stator:
Two of the yellow wires should read: Minimum 14vAC
and the third yellow wire should read: Minimum 7vAC

I'm not sure on the 12 pole, I'll look. What is the model of this Jonway? This one?

.scooterdepot.us/21th-150cc-gas-motor-scooter-fully-assembed-with-trunk-p-443-272.html" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">.scooterdepot.us/21th-150cc-gas-motor-scooter-fully-assembed-with-trunk-p-443-272.html

Then do as Cruiser said take a voltage reading on the RED wire from the R/R after plugging it back up.

Make sure all the plugs are making good connection and as TV said check all of your grounds especially the ones on the frame and make absolutely sure the engine itself has a ground wire.

Hang in there we'll get her going. If you do indeed have a manual/wiring diagram then let me know via PM and we'll make arrangements to get it to me so we can start finding this proble.

JR

[lennie11b]

Thanks for the reply i'm about to go get a better multimeter because mine sucks. but i found a wire up at the headlights a 2 plug with a black and green wire it is unplugged i don't know where it goes but there is no where to plug it in as i can see. for the switch question it is a high low beam switch. ill be back when i get my readings and will post them
Thanks

[JR]

OK great we're going to work on it and a good multimeter is a good start. On the black/green plug you found it's a accessory wire, if you turn the key on and set the meter to DC and put one lead on black and the other on green you will or should get 12Vdc. It's put there in case y7ou want to add something, like a radio or 12 volt plugin etc. Don't worry about it.

Now once you test the yellow stator leads do each on to ground and record the readings and then do each one yellow to yellow, rev the scooter up some and see if it increases.

Like TV said lets test things and eliminate all possibilities before you start spending money. Again make sure all of your ground wiresx from the battery to the frame are making good contact and I'll STRESS again make sure the engine itself is grounded. Look at the stator plug and make sure all the connectors make good contact when plugging it in the R/R.

[cruiser]

The closest thing I could find for this scoot was the wiring diagram for the 150 Lance Milan on our site (6 wire R/R). However this diagram does not agree with the wiring diagram in the 150 Lance Milan owner's manual. The difference is primarily with the R/R (4 wire R/R). Where did the 6 wire diagram come from?

[cruiser]

May 26, 2012 6:33:19 GMT -6 tvnacman said:

May 25, 2012 22:59:01 GMT -6 cruiser said:

Welcome to the forum, lennie11b. The 6 wire regulator/rectifier means that you have a full DC system and all the lights work on DC. If only some of the lights come on when the headlight is on, it means there may be an open circuit.

With the key turned off, check for battery voltage at the red wire of the plug on the regulator/rectifier (R/R). This is the output of the R/R so when the engine is running the DC voltage should be at least 13.5 volts which you should be able to see also on the positive terminal of the battery. If there is no DC on the red wire, then you have an open circuit between the battery and the R/R. If there is DC, but it does not increase or drops when the engine is running, then there is a problem with the R/R. This could be a problem with the connectors at the R/R. The connector with the 3 yellows sometimes overheats and may not feed AC into the R/R. If the connectors check out OK, then the R/R probably really went south.

Let us know how your voltage checks turn out.

The ACV measurments on the yellow wires when plugged in , are not really telling you anything . When the AC input to the regulator is connected to the regulator from the stator . The readings are some what wild . The regulator is clamping down the ac to control DCV output , it a balanceing act. What is not needed for DC output will be dumped to ground .

I made no mention of doing AC measurements on the stator here. I agree that the measurements should be made with the input connector from the stator disconnected. The reason for measuring AC across the 3 yellow wires is that the stator is normally floating and measuring to ground will not give an accurate reading. Also a defective R/R could influence the readings at the input with the stator connected making it look like a problem with the stator.

Also it is my understanding that the regulator controls the output of the rectifier rather than the output of the stator. The stator is always at maximum output.

The regulator in an alternator (like in a car) regulates the output of by varying the current through the field coils according to the needs of the battery.