4 pin to 5 pin regulator swap - help needed By godfeast (Read 24,901 times)

[godfeast]

The scenario:

I have a '96 150cc longbo scooter that the engine fails in and I have to buy a new engine off ebay.

The engine arrives but with a 5 pin regulator and an 8 pole stator instead of the older stock 6 pole stator with 4 pin regulator.

I play it safe and swap the old stator+regulator into the new engine and ride for a year.

The old stator recently failed and due to several issues, not the least being the scooter is now my main ride, I have to put the 8 pole stator back in the engine and forgot about the regulator issue.

My headlights all blow out immediately. I check the headlight's and find upwards of 50 volts coming across, and then remember about the 5 pin regulator situation.

I need to get this scooter up and running post haste or risk losing my job, so this now becomes a critical situation or I would simply order a new 6 pole stator and another 4 pin regulator, but I'm back against a wall and I need to make this happen.

The extra wire is a black lead I didnt have before. The 4 previous wires are green,red,yellow, white.

Can anyone explain to me what I need to do to make this function?

Is it as simple as running a black lead to the ignition switch and plugging the other wires directly in out of the harness?

What other concerns do I need to worry about?

[tvnacman]

do the 11 pole 7pin mod , you have some strange set up there . I belive in doing what I know works . or use the old regulator and put a six pole stator back in .
With the others around here you may have someone familur with 8pole 5pin set up .
I have six pole stators .

John

[godfeast]

If I have to wait to order another stator of any kind, I've already lost this battle.

The old 4 pin is toast at this point, since I forgot all about the regulator situation when I did the swap and ran it on the new 8 pole for a few minutes, frying it.

I hope one of the guys with that experience drops by.

[JR]

First of all welcome to the forum! Install the 8-pole stator and then run the wires to the 5-pin R/R as follows;

Green = ground
Yellow = AC feed from stator Yellow
White = AC feed from stator White (also may feed the autochoke)
Red = 12Vdc wire from R/R to battery positive terminal for charging
Black from R/R goes to black wire on key ignition switch

The black wire reads the voltage and helps regulate the R/R output.

Again welcome to the forum and we're here to help.

JR

[godfeast]

Thank you. Going out to get this started and crossing my fingers,

[JR]

Godfeast if you need assistance just take pictures of the problem if you can and we'll work it out.

You'll do fine. JR

[JR]

Godfeast DO NOT DO THIS!

scooterdoc.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=150cc&action=display&thread=6296

Do it exactly as I said. The 5-pin R/R again has the extra black wire.

Run the RED wire to the positive post on the battery. You should on your origianl set up already have a fused red wire from the positive post on the battery that goes to the key ignition switch. This supplies 12Vdc to the key switch. THE ONLY PURPOSE OF THE RED COLOR WIRE FROM THE R/R IS TO CHARGE THE BATTERY!

On your 8-pole stator you will have a 3 plug with the folowing wires;

White
Yellow
Green

They match up to the colors on the R/R to the letter. The other two single wires with the little bullet connectors from the stator go to the CDI and should hook up apples to apples with the original CDI.

That now leaves the BLACK wire from the R/R. You have a black wire on the key switch now and when the key is on it supplies 12Vdc to the accessories, horn, blinkers, gauges, brakes, etc. Hook the BLACK wire from the R/R to this wire, tie it in DO NOT CUT THIS WIRE just tie it in so the R/R can read the voltage.

THIS BLACK WIRE IS NOT A VOLTAGE SUPPLY WIRE but rather a regulating wire.

Voltage is supplied from the battery and is charged by the RED from the R/R.

Again we are here to help.

JR

[godfeast]

Things didnt go so well.

I followed your instructions and after installing the 5pin the scooter wouldnt start at all.

I needed to get it going for work, so i replugged in the bad 4pin and left the headlight harness off- just rode without headlights as the bike fired up again after putting it back in.
(confused about this all together)

I made it 15 minutes down the rode and it cut out, but restarted.

2 minutes later it died again and wouldnt start at all- battery was dead and kickstart wouldnt do it either.

The battery was fully charged preride.

Im wondering if maybe this engine wasnt setup for dc already. The frame/electronics on the bike are definitely ac.

Not sure what to do at this point.

[tvnacman]

I was rooting for the black wire to be a feedback in that set up . Sorry to hear it did not work do you have a meter ?

John

[JR]

First of all the engine is not set up for DC, never was. The scooter stator puts out AC and is converted to DC by the R/R. Second of all the R/R has nothing to do with the engine running. You can totally remove it and the engine will run provided the stator, CDI and coil are all good and properly hooked up. In fact the scooter will run without a battery again if the stator, CDI and coil are good if you kick start it.

Now I don't know about this engine? You say you bought it and used the old 4-pin set up and it went bad and now want to use the 8-coil set up. First of all if this is the standard 8-coil stator it will have 5 wires and here they are;

3-plug = green, yellow white
single black/red
single blue/white or red/white

If this is the case then you can use the 4-pin R/R that originally came with the scooter or the new 5-pin one.

It seems that you have other issues or you bought a engine that wasn't apples for apples to begin with? Have you altered the harness? Pictures of your stator with the wires would be helpful also. Have done any other electrical changes?

JR

[godfeast]

I had thought that the case as well, but when it didn't start I just put the old one back in and it turned over. I assumed the worst because I was on a time crunch.

The engine ran perfectly well when I had swapped in my old 6 pole stator last year. I had put maybe 1k miles on it since then.

I do have a test light, mulitmeter, soldering iron, wires, crimp, etc...

I am only using the 8 pole stator it came with and the 5 pin rectifier it came with because the old stator was tested bad and looked pretty rough ( almost 5k and nearly 6 years wear on it ).

The wiring from the stator will have to be rechecked to be sure( scooter broke down 10 miles from home). I do "believe" the wiring is as described - I know that when I put it back in I looked at the wiring and everything hooked up as it was in the old stator.

The old 4 pin was suspect because on putting in the new 8 pole stator all my headlights blew out and 50 volts was read as going to the lights at mid wot on stand.

I have not altered the harness. I have not made any electrical changes. I have not modded the scooter at all except to put a uni air filter and open exhaust on.

[JR]

Ok where did you read the 50 volts at and was it AC or DC? The head and tail lights hook to the yellow wire off of the R/R and run off of that. Again you can get a 4 pin R/R and hook up to the 8-pole stator as most 8-pole stators use a 4-pin. The 5-pin is odd but will work.

The only way the scooter can be classified as DC is if the CDI is run off of DC power and very few 150 scooters do that. Was the engine you bought a standard long case 157Q Gy-6 engine?

the wires to the CDI should be;

black/yellow
green
black/white
red/white
black/red

If this is the case then it's a AC powered system. If the stator was DC then you would not have a black/red wire to feed the CDI.

It's very possible you have a short or bad wire in the system. and you'll need to verify these colors and again some pictures will help if we have questions.

We'll get you up and going, hang in there and get her back home so we can help.

JR

[godfeast]

50 volts ac at the headlight sockets. The lights came on dimly when the new stator was in and the engine idling, then blew out almost immediately.

tail lights and turn signals are all led's and still work.

The engine was a standard 150cc long case off ebay.

I will recheck wires when I can get back to the scooter.

[JR]

You've got a wiring issue. The headlight and tail lights run off of the same circuit, generally a brown wire that ties in on the yellow wire in the R/R area.

When you get the scooter back we need to strip it and start tracing out the wires and of course you need a new R/R. After you verify the stator wiring then we will get the right one and do you have a camera and know how to post pictures?

Also do you have the engine itself grounded? There should be a jumper wire that hooks up to the frame where the negative battery cable hooks up and then hooks up to the engine. Generally it will bolt up on one of the fan shroud cover bolts. The engine must be grounded.

JR

[godfeast]

Good times. I love searching for shorts...

Ok then. The engine itself is definitely grounded both above the stator as you described and on the framing just before the battery; these are the first two things I look at when any electrical issue comes up and I remember checking them after the lights blew, in addition to checking the fuse just to make sure it didnt go.

I have a camera as well and I can post pics once I manage to get a hold of the bike.

Just wondering though, how could a wiring issue push so many volts through to the headlights and why would it let me drive for nearly half an hour before suddenly dying on me?; would that indicate the cdi or coil being damaged?