Roketa Electronic Catastrophe By ellpee (Read 2,758 times)

[ellpee]

Yesterday I pulled the absolute dumbest stunt anyone can pull on a motor vehicle. Took the battery out of my nearly new Roketa MC-54-250B to charge it, put it back in and cross-wired it -- red to ground and black to positive. Now NOTHING works, no surprise. Fuses are all okay, unless there are some hidden under the plastic that I don't know about. Only one that blew was the in-line fuse on the small red wire off the positive pole of the battery, that I THINK goes to the ignition switch. Or that was SUPPOSED to be on the positive pole. ;>( ....

Looking at the parts diagram it appears there are several electrical/electronic items that might have taken a hit:
--Instrument Cluster
--Ignition Switch
--CDI unit
--Rectifier
--Relay (the one in the red battery cable circuit)
--Singing Sparking Relay (whatever the heck that is)
--Disaster Box (whatever the heck that is)
--Ignition Loop Assy

I know I've got a lot of work ahead of me, looking for tips on how to work my way from most-likely to least-likely. Also whether, in the case of the instrument cluster, there are components that can be replaced individually if necessary rather than replacing the entire unit. And finally, I see a huge price difference for these parts between Roketa Parts and other on-line sellers. Any reason to pay the extra?

Oh, a PS: that fuse that blew on the small red wire was a 7.5 amp, but the parts list says it should be a 20 amp. Big difference! Anybody know which is correct? And can anybody enlighten me about those two "whatever the heck" items?

[richardthescooter3]

There is a 20amp fuse in the starter relay, this is your main fuse, replace this fuse and all should be well the fuse near the battery is 15amp.

Attachments:

[bobf]

Be kind to yourself. You aren't alone with this misfortune. At least one other has posted the same mistake in the last year.
.

[alleyoop]

Check all your fuses, yours may have a fuse box with about 5 or so fuses. Now the main fuse most likely popped and saved the fuses in the box IF you have a fuse box, it all depends on which 250 you have. Some have only about two fuses the main one and olso one may be built in on the SOLENOID Realy.

Usually what happens when this happens is the MAIN FUSE BLOWS protecting the rest of the system. So looking at the main fuse and thinking it is fine is not good enough, you either test it or just replace it with a new one because if that is no good the whole scoot is dead nothing will work.
Here is the main fuse coming off the battery that is the one you should replace or test it if you have a tester. A simple 12v LIGHT TESTER is all you really need they are very cheap a few bucks but are great.

A lot of folks look at that TUBE FUSE and see the thin wire not broke so they think it is good. BUT they cannot see the ends on both sides which may be where it is broke.
Alleyoop

[ellpee]

Well, you folks give me hope. The in-line fuse (first picture in Alleyoop's post) is the only one that blew, although I had previously cut out the tubular glass fuse and replaced it with an equivalent spade fuse/holder. My fuse box looks exactly like his second picture, and all the fuses there were good, nothing blown. As to the fuse "in the starter relay," I looked at mine and it seems to be a sealed unit; in fact, I just went out and looked again to be sure, even removed the rubber covering, but the inside is a sealed metal object as far as I can tell. Am I missing something? Is that fuse perhaps mounted in line on the wire that runs from the relay to somewhere down in the bowels of the engine compartment?

Funny thing about that in-line fuse to the ignition switch; scoot came with a 7.5, parts list shows it as 20A/250v, and rts3 says it's supposed to be a 15A. I have all kinds of fuses, want to put in one that's strong enough but not too strong, less a power surge kill something more sensitive and expensive and hard to replace down the line.

[JR]

There are two versions of this scooter the vertical one which you have and the horizontal engine which is the linhai one. The linhai is the one with the 20A fuse on the starter relay the vertical moto type has the fuse box.

Don't just look at the fuses, check them with a meter, Chinese fuses can look good and be bad. The 7.5A fuse is too small at least a 15A is needed on the main inline fuse to the ignition key switch which is what this fuse is.

You have a fuse in the fuse box that goes to the brake lights, if it's blown no start along with no brake lights.

JR

[ellpee]

Ah so, good news/bad news then, I guess. Was hoping it was going to be as simple as replacing a fuse on the relay, or worst case the relay itself. Just checked the in-line fuse I had installed to replace the one that blew, and although it looked OK, it was bad. So, replaced it with a 15A that tested good. (To my surprise, a couple others I had in my stock of spares also tested bad, so I chucked them.) Then checked all six 10A fuses in the fuse box (I think two are just spares, but tested them anyway) and they are all OK.

So, armed with that diagnostic wisdom I turned on the ignition switch. Some good news -- the turn signals work, the fuel gauge works, and the radio turns on, though no sound. That suggests the instrument cluster is not completely toasted; would of course not expect any speedo/rpm/temp readings with the engine not running. But no headlights, horn, and above all, no start or even feeble crank. Battery is showing about 12.3v. I guess that's progress, but still a long way from the finish line. Ready for whatever additional advice those here can offer as to how to proceed.

[ellpee]

And the plot continues to thicken. Almost bedtime, just checked some more things. With key on, emergency flashers do work -- expected, as they are basically just the turn signals. Brake and headlights do not work with engine not running. Engine will not crank with brake on/start button, BUT will crank with remote start control. Does not actually start, though, or at least didn't tonight. While cranking, did note headlights went on, clock on dashboard lit up. So everything is not dead, but still an issue with normal key on/brake on/button start. Will top off the battery overnight and see if the remote will actually start it in the morning.

[alleyoop]

Ok, now do this JUMP the STARTER SOLENOID and see if the starter spins and you can test the wires going to the Solenod I believe its the YELLOW AND GREEN that carries the JUICE when you turn on the KEY and Squeeze the brakes. When the brakes are squeezed it sends juice to the Solenoid and the brakes so it splits. The Start button just completes the cirucit by grounding the SOLENOID.
Alleyoop

[ellpee]

Oops, starter solenoid? Know what that is, but not where it is; presume I'll have to take off at least some plastic to get to it.
Clue of the morning, by the way: had the battery on the charger all night while still installed in the scoot, and had a "will not charge" indication this morning. Removed it from the scoot and have it on the charger now, and last time I looked it seemed to be charging normally. Don't know if that tells anybody anything ....

Oh BTW, while testing things, any reason I couldn't jumper the scoot to a regular automotive battery to save all the dinking around with that little bitty scoot battery? Wouldn't want to fry something because of too much power.

Nice trike, incidentally. Custom job, I presume. How does it perform with all that extra weight?

[ellpee]

Lunchtime, and the news gets better. Charged the battery off the scoot for a few hours, 12.6v, put it back in (CORRECTLY this time!), still no luck with start button but it did start and run with the remote, and headlights were on as usual. Forgot to try the horn, went back out to do so and this time crank but no start.

So problem #1 now seems to be no crank from the ignition switch, plus maybe difficult starting, more so than before my incident. All advice welcome.

[terrilee]

beyond my knowledgebut at least u came to the right place,
these guys dont come on , usually, well till about now
sometimes the ol farts are here early

but ya know ol guys they sleep in, etc etc

[alleyoop]

The Solenoid will be close to your battery due to the short leads from the battery it looks like this you cannot miss it.
Alleyoop

[ellpee]

Went out and bought a supply of good ol' US-made fuses and replaced all the OEM ones. Wow, you could really see a difference, the Chinese ones looked downright flimsy compared to the US ones. Put them in, started it with the remote, fired right up. Ran it for a couple minutes while I tried things, shut it down, tried again a few minutes later, crank but no start. Grrrrrr. But at the moment the only thing the ignition switch does is energize the fuel gauge and turn signals. When it's running I have hi/lo headlights and clock. No horn, running or not. Just the little bit I did took the battery from 12.3v down to 11.9. Hope all this suggests to somebody smarter than me which thing(s) I should check next.

Alleyoop, if you're out there, do you by "starter solenoid" mean the one right by the battery, that the positive cable runs into and back out? Or is there one on the starter motor the way there is on a car?

[alleyoop]

Look at the picture I put up that is your SOLENOID(RELAY) whatever you like to call it. ALL that does is ALLOW the VOLTAGE from the battery to go to your STATER to activate it. Now to activate the SOLENOID to do this YOU HAVE TO Have the KEY ON and then SQUEEZE ONE of the BRAKES and that sends the JUICE to the SOLENOID now to activate it YOU PUSH the START BUTTON which all that does is GROUNDS the SOLENOID now the circuit for the SOLENOID is complete it activates a CONTACT INSIDE the SOLENOID that MAKES CONTACT WITH BOTH TERMINALS. Just as if you TOUCH BOTH TERMINALS with a SCREWDRIVER sameo sameo.

The Solenoid should be either right next to the battery or very close because the wires are not very long. Just look for the LITTLE BLACK thing with two terminals and the POSTIVE CABLE ATTACHED TO IT. The other terminal on the SOLENOID will be going to the STARTER.
Alleyoop