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Post by johnny3d on Jun 29, 2015 11:20:16 GMT -6
Back on the topic of my non running scoot... I charged up the battery last night and got it hooked back in with the battery tender on it to keep it topped off. Seems to have taken a charge, so at least I probably won't have to buy a new battery for it too!  |
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Post by johnny3d on Jun 28, 2015 23:48:05 GMT -6
Well... you ought to start a new thread for that. Take a picture and post it. It could be the blow off valve tube. A lot of those just run down and drop to the ground. Though on mine it actually connects up with the intake, I think.
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Post by johnny3d on Jun 28, 2015 17:26:34 GMT -6
I'm planning on ordering the new CDI from John's site. I put it off for a long while because my in-laws filled my garage with crap and I couldn't really work on the scooter. Additionally, I just got so frustrated with trying things and having them not work that I kind of lost hope on it. They even unplugged my battery tender, so there is a chance that my battery is hosed since it hasn't had a charge in it for about a year.
I'll let you guys know when I get the new CDI and see if that works. I would REALLY like to get my scooter up and running again.
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Post by johnny3d on May 31, 2014 8:47:09 GMT -6
Yeah. That one looks just like the one I bought before and even has the pretty much the same description. I was trying to find one on Tvnacman's site because those are all tested/known good parts. Where as the previous one I bought from "PowerSportsMax.com" may not be functioning. |
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Post by johnny3d on May 30, 2014 21:38:23 GMT -6
I am having trouble finding a DC CDI for a 250cc with the square plug like mine on tvnacman's site. I'll try disconnecting the kill switch wire later, but I wanted to see if I could find that CDI on there. I like the idea of it being a tested/known good part. I found an AC one that looks like mine, but not a DC one.
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Post by johnny3d on May 30, 2014 13:58:17 GMT -6
All tests at 20k Ohms:
Green Wire to Battery ground = 0.00
Black/Yellow to CDI Plug Black/Yellow = 0.00
I have two 250cc ignition coils:
#1 (new): Green tab to boot = 6.85, Black tab to boot = 6.85
#2 (old): Green tab to boot = 7.75, Black tab to boot = 7.75
Boots on both are in good shape. It FEELS like both of them make good contact to the spark plug. I hear an audible "click" sound when they are firmly seated on the spark plug.
I decided to do a few other tests.
Using the 20k Ohms setting:
NGK DR8EIX:
I got a 5.05 from connection tip to spark end on the spark plug alone.
When plugged into the New Ignition coil boot (the one with the 6.85 Ohm reading), I get 11.88 from either tab on the ignition coil to the tip of the plug. I also get 11.88 from the Green Wire and Black/Yellow wire on the CDI plug to the tip of the plug. So... as near as I can tell, I am definitely getting a good connection all the way from the CDI plug to the tip of the spark plug.
I also took my old spark plug which had been sitting out of the engine for a long while now and smelled it. It didn't smell like much of anything. I put it in the engine and turned it over a few times. Then I took the plug out of the engine and it smelled of gasoline. So I assume that gas IS making its way there.
With the spark plug plugged into the boot of the ignition coil (and the ignition coil hooked up to the CDI and everything), I placed the flat metal part of the spark plug against the ground on the battery and turned the engine over to check for spark... I saw no spark being produced at all.
It is possible that my old CDI and my new CDI are both no good. It SEEMS like from my tests that my ignition coils are probably both good. I know the connection from CDI to the tip of the plug is fine since I tested that... or seems that way.
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Post by johnny3d on May 30, 2014 11:25:51 GMT -6
More results:
Test #1 (Black & White): With the Key ON and kill in RUN position I got the "1" on the meter. Turning the key OFF and it did change to 0.00. Key back to ON with the kill in OFF the meter changed to 0.56
#2 skipped (good to go here)
Test #3 (Yellow & Black): Key OFF = 0.00, Key ON = 0.45
Test #4 (Green): The meter read 0.00 and does NOT change regardless of kill switch position.
Test #5 (Red & White): When turning the engine over I get .2 at the beginning, then it drops to 0.00 as the engine continues to crank. Then when I release the ignition it jumps 1.6... Repeated that a few times and got the same result (with slight variation to the jump at the end after releasing the ignition button) each time.
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Post by johnny3d on May 30, 2014 2:15:54 GMT -6
#1 is kill wire, should read 0v at all times. Doesn't matter if the key is off or on, it is a ground wire. Either your meter is messing up or you have a wire touching somewhere feeding it this very small amount of current. Any voltage at all is incorrect.
#2 is 12Vdc CDI feed wire all readings are correct.
#3 is feed wire from CDI to coil, very hard to read this at all and I presume when you say with ignition you mean turning the engine over? A ordinary meter isn't fast enough to get any accurate readings on this wire, I would say the reading is incorrect but again you can't read this wire.
#4 is the ground should have 0v on all functions, grounds have no voltage, if you do have current then you've got either a hot wire crossed on it or even a possible bad ignition switch or even a incorrect CDI. Do you know for a fact you bought a DC type CDI? If you put a AC type on then it'll never run.
#5 is pulse coil (trigger) wire from the stator. With the engine turning over it should as others stated read between .5 to 2.5 Vac.
Pull the plugs out of the CDI and test each wire again like this:
#1 Set your meter to the ohms scale reading, touch both probes to each other and take note of the reading on your meter. Then with the engine kill switch in the run position, put one lead to the black/white wire, the other to the negative post of the battery, you should get no movement or ohms resistance on your meter. Then with the meter still hooked up put the kill switch in the off (engine kill) position and then take note of the reading, it should read nearly the same as when you touched the two meter leads together to start with, if not then we have a problem.
#2 is fine, it's the DC feed to the CDI with the key on, you've already confirmed this.
#3 should read 0v, nothing.
#4 is again a ground, put one lead to the negative post of the battery and the other to this green wire, it should read just like when you put the two meter lead wires together full resistance
. #5 is pulse coil feed wire, should read 0v with scooter not running. Should read from .05 to 2.5Vac with engine being turned over.
JR
Okay... First, I took a pic of my multimeter so it's clear what I mean when I talk about the settings I used to do the tests:  Going down your list here are my results: #1 (Black and White): With the multimeter set to 2000 Ohms, touching the two probes together would result with 000. With the kill switch in the "Run" position, I got no reading at all. With the kill switch in the "kill" (or off) position I get 164. I re-tested at 20k Ohms and got 000 with just the probes, no reading with the kill switch in the "Run" position, and .57 in the "Kill/Off" position. #2 (Black) Re tested just to be sure... getting 13.02 vDC on the 20 vDC setting on the multimeter. #3 (Black and Yellow): With the multimeter set to the 20 vDC setting, I get 0 vDC. I did notice that if I switched it to to the 200m vDC setting, I was picking up a reading of 11.2. #4 (Green): With the multimeter set to 200 ohms, I get .2 on the probes alone, and 6.6 on the green wire. On the 2000 ohms setting I get 000 on the probes and 000 on the green wire. Even with it disconnected from the CDI, when turning the engine over it does read .2 vDC. #5 (Red and White): I set the multimeter to 200 vAC and while turning over the engine I got 0v. When I let go of the ignition and stop turning over the engine it would jump to .6 vAC or 1.5 vAC or .9 vAC. But whenever I was actually turning the engine over, I got no reading on the vAC. That was all tested with the plugs disconnected from the CDI. I dug up the order for the new CDI that is in there and it is listed as: "6-Pin DC-CDI Box for 250cc Scooters & Go Karts", so unless they sent me the wrong one, it's a DC CDI. |
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Post by johnny3d on May 29, 2014 17:12:36 GMT -6
I bought a new digital multimeter. It doesn't have a 10 setting for DCV so I had to use the 20 on the dial. Here's a picture showing the wires and how I numbered them: (Wire #3 is hard to see, but it's the yellow black wire)  Now for the breakdown: (with Ignition = Me pressing the starter button to try and start the engine) 1. Key On + Kill set to Fun = 0.37v, Key Off or Kill Off = 0.0v 2. Key On + Kill set to Fun = 13.05v, Key Off = 0.0v, Kill Off = 13.05v 3. Key On + Kill set to Fun = 0.0v, with Ignition = 0.3v 4. Key On + Kill Set to Fun = 0.0v, with Ignition = 0.4v to 0.22v (spiked at 0.4v then quickly dropped to 0.25v or 0.22v) 5. Key On + Kill Set to Fun = 0.36v, Key Off or Kill Off = 0.0v, with Ignition = 0.6v I don't have a 6th wire there... so... I didn't bother testing that lead. I'm not exactly sure what to make of those results. If you need to ask any questions for clarification, please do. I can take a pic of my multimeter if need be so you can see the setting I had it at. If there are any additional tests you need me to take to help me diagnose this, please just tell me what to test for. Thanks again for all your help. |
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Post by johnny3d on May 26, 2014 3:11:55 GMT -6
No. The thread didn't get moved or anything.
I haven't completely given up yet, just mostly. I haven't bought a new Multi-Meter yet to double check the stator. Besides, if I end up having to replace the stator, I think I'd have to buy a flywheel puller tool too...
I've been trying to find a mechanic who will work on it for me at this point. Every time I go out and try to get it running and fail to get it running I just end up a bit frustrated and a little depressed about the whole thing. I'd rather find a mechanic who can diagnose the issue EXACTLY instead of just buying parts, replacing them, and it ending up not being the issue.
If I can't track down the problem soon or I can't find a mechanic, I might just sell it.
Seems like nobody even remotely close to where I live in South Dakota will even look at it to tell me what's wrong with it.
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Post by johnny3d on Apr 26, 2014 23:54:04 GMT -6
Bottom wire on the 2-Plug gets DC voltage with the key turned to the ON position confirming a DC CDI.
Trigger wire (red/white on mine) shows a very slight AC voltage with my multimeter set to the 10 ACV setting when I crank it over. The analog meter barely moves at all, but it does move ever so slightly when I hit the starter but doesn't seem to be coming close to approaching a .5 to 2.5v.
I also tested it with it set to 10 DCV and it gave pretty much the same exact slight movement on the gauge.
I might need a better multimeter to get anything specific from that. It's a pretty inexpensive model.
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Post by johnny3d on Apr 26, 2014 22:35:31 GMT -6
Well... My multimeter only has a 10, 250, or 500 ACV setting. I set it to 10 and tested one of the yellow wires coming out of the stator which then leads to the regulator/rectifier. You can see the yellow wires in this pic:  (you can ignore the "what is this?" part because someone already told me that is the regulator/rectifier.) When I connected to one of those yellow wires which come out of the stator, it produced about a 3-4 ACV current while turning over the engine. Honestly I'm not really sure which of the wires going into the CDI is the one that is getting the signal from the pickup coil. I re-checked the wires going from the CDI to the ignition coil with the multimeter set to 1x Ohm. That showed good connections from the CDI to leads on the brand new ignition coil. The ignition coil has a tab that has green plastic around it and a tab with black. One of the wires that leads to the ignition coil is black with a yellow stripe and the other is green. It came originally set up with the black/yellow wire connected to the green marked tab on the ignition coil and the green wire hooked to the black tab on the ignition coil. I have tried it with the wires hooked up both ways but neither seems to produce a spark. When testing for a spark, I have used both my old and new spark plug plugged into the ignition coil (3 of them actually) and then grounded against a valve cover bolt that I specifically attached a new ground wire to recently. It SHOULD be getting a good ground from that position, but I see no spark when turning over the engine. So... Stator appears to be putting out voltage... I have tried the original CDI and a newly purchased CDI. I have tried 3 different Ignition Coils (original, a 50cc ignition coil, and a New 250cc ignition coil). I have tested with two different spark plugs. Both NGK plugs, one new, one old. I have checked all the connections I can find by seeing if the two sides of the connection have any OHM resistance or not. All checked out fine. I feel like there is just going to be something stupid that I've completely overlooked. I've checked everything I can think of and everything suggested over and over and over. I smell gas on the plug after I try and turn it over a few times, so I think there is gas getting to the chamber, I'm just not getting any spark. I so wish I could just take it into a shop. I wish a mechanic around here would fix it for me... because despite all the encouragement and suggestions, I'm not figuring it out and my scooter has now been non-functional since August 9th of last year. |
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Post by johnny3d on Apr 26, 2014 20:01:44 GMT -6
Thanks for the reply on that. I'll check that tomorrow, I've had enough disappointment with this machine for today. Unfortunately the stator is the more expensive part of the bunch ($20 for the CDI, $18 for the ignition coil, and $60 for the stator). Of course, if it isn't that, then I guess I'll have to start re-wiring even though my multimeter is showing the wires as good.
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Post by johnny3d on Apr 26, 2014 17:01:41 GMT -6
Just got the new 250cc ignition coil in the mail... no spark.
How do I test the stator to see if it's functional? I'm so annoyed at this point.
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Post by johnny3d on Apr 22, 2014 16:02:16 GMT -6
I think you could go with a tire patch kit + small air pump instead of a spare tire. Install a Battery Tender into it so you can plug it in and charge the battery should that get drained. Umm... not sure what else you might want in there.
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