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Post by tvnacman on Oct 29, 2011 17:07:46 GMT -6
Hey guys ,
So I see chatter about variators the ones with larger diameter , so if I replaced the variator with one with a larger diameter . Would I need a longer belt to get the benefit of the larger diameter of the variator . So is there anything to gain in changing the filnal drive gears and larger variator . I'm willing to give up some low end for hwy speed .
so I'm running stock variator that had 12g rollers for 12g sliders . I just finished my duct tape repair on my scooter . It is snowing here in NYC today . I went for a very short trip the other day , but all the plastic was not together , so I went easy . Hopefully tomorrow or Monday will be dry and I can go for a good hard ride .
So I was going to call my goto guy today , I chose to post here for all to see and learn . When putting the plastic back together I installed a magnetic tach . I really don't need it but it is great for reference .
So what is the power band and what is red line ?
With a larger variator do I need a longer belt ?
John
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Post by JR on Oct 29, 2011 18:24:16 GMT -6
Hey John first of all keep the snow! LOl Help me out here long case GY-6 with what belt on it currently or short case GY-6? Short case GY-6 belt is 743-20 and that's it no belt longer with the right width and angle. Now on the long case scooters come with the 835-20 or 842-20 so if you have the short version then a 842 will change it some by simply it's length, it's 7mm longer so it'll go father out on the variator for a tad more top end (as much as 2mph) but you may be a little more sluggish on take off. What one needs to look for is the power curve according to their riding needs, terrain, weight and temperature and hope to get into a happy medium. now with the sliders you'll also add top end gain by how they work; thescooterprofessor.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=genvideo&action=display&thread=384Now on the GY-6 it's power band curve is around 7500 rpm and that's the range of maximum HP output to rpm on most scooters to go with the tranny gear set up. by playing with the variator weights and size one can generally hold a good steady 55 MPH and maybe a tad more if riding on flat ground, cool weather and not too much rider weight again it all varies with each condiditon and rider. The GY-6 is air cooled run it up at the 8k range long in hot weather and it'll be a short lived engine that's just common sense. What I tell people is to try for your top speed in the 7500 rpm range and leave that extra 500 rpm for climbing a hill or maybe to pass a slow vehicle otr something. Also if you can stay in the hp to rpm curve you'll attain your best mpg by not working the engine to death again a happy medium. Again it all depends on what you're wanting to do, run a long time at a pace that protects the engine or run like a BOH for a short period of time? Also one can special order a 846-20 belt for a 11mm difference and gain a hair that way too. JR |
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Post by tvnacman on Oct 29, 2011 18:37:53 GMT -6
it has the 842-20-30 , the scooter is the mc13 150 . I'm about 180lbs
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Post by tvnacman on Oct 29, 2011 18:44:26 GMT -6
I think I put my sliders in backwards . Thanks to the video
John
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Post by JR on Oct 29, 2011 18:44:35 GMT -6
Then at that weight and length and with 12g sliders the only top end I see gained by working on the CVT area is 13g sliders, a 846 belt which is only 4mm longer and then changing the tranny gears to a higher ratio. But you'll kill the low end with changing the gears IMO and you'll need to stay on flat ground.
!3 gram sliders IMO is the best bet and if you want more top end for a small cost. I run 12g rollers in my MC-13-150 but I run in the hills and need the extra RPM.
JR
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Post by alleyoop on Oct 29, 2011 18:57:18 GMT -6
John, Read this it might help you decide. I have tried longer belts as well as cutting down the BOSS to squeeze the belt more and I lost TOP END. And yes a BIGGER DIAMETER VARIATOR is what you would look for. The Belt will only CLIMB AS HIGH as the SMALLEST FACE in DIAMETER. Now a longer belt you may loose top end and here is the reason, just because the belt is longer what that might do is NOT PULL the BELT down as far in the CLUTCH PULLEY. No as you know a BIG WHEEL TURNING A SMALLER WHEEL will turn it fast, so if the Longer belt climbs up the Variator it may not pull the belt down in the CLUTCH pulley as far as with the OEM or Shorter Belt therefore the you will loose top end. Also once you get the BELT up as high as possible on the VARIATOR the more RPMS you can give it at that point the Faster it will turn the CLUTCH PULLEY. Alleyoop thescooterprofessor.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=gall&thread=636 |
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Post by JR on Oct 29, 2011 19:16:54 GMT -6
Most generally it's been determined to work on a stock set up because a lot of scooters, clutch main spring is weaker at 750rpm which allows for a deeper belt penetration, it may have a stronger spring on your trike with it's set up? I gained a touch with the longer belt on my Bali which is the MC-13-150 like Johns and the bigger variator. At one time I had my Bali at 6500 RPM and 63 MPH with 86 mpg but it would just crawl up these Ozark mountains so I had to raise the rpm's back up.  |
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Post by tvnacman on Oct 29, 2011 19:24:56 GMT -6
Most generally it's been determined to work on a stock set up because a lot of scooters, clutch main spring is weaker at 750rpm which allows for a deeper belt penetration, it may have a stronger spring on your trike with it's set up? I gained a touch with the longer belt on my Bali which is the MC-13-150 like Johns and the bigger variator. At one time I had my Bali at 6500 RPM and 63 MPH with 86 mpg but it would just crawl up these Ozark mountains so I had to raise the rpm's back up. OK JR what do you weigh ? what was the diameter of the variator and what weights were you using . I live in NYC I get some inclines I'm not climbing mountains . I'm willing to give up being first off the line to be able to cruise on the HWY . John |
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Post by tvnacman on Nov 3, 2011 16:51:01 GMT -6
Ok fellas , I put the sliders in backwards , shit happens . tonight I will go for a test run .12g sliders and stock variator . JR have you measured your variator , if so what were/are the measurments between stock and aftermarket ? My cvt cover has been off since I poped the belt before the summer .
John
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Post by JR on Nov 4, 2011 18:13:34 GMT -6
Most stock variators are around 107mm and at one time I had the prodigy variator at 115mm but I recently changed back to OEM. Reason was that even though I liked the set up especailly since my Bali started pushing 84mpg I gave the scooter to my step son Zachary and he weighs about 125lbs sopping wet and if he opened it up all the way with the 13 gram sliders in he could hit nearly 70mph on it.
I tuned it back down to slow it down and also we ride in the mountains a lot here at my house I bought last april and I wanted better pulling up the hills.
John if you're running on relatively flat ground you would like the prodigy variator can give up some of the take off and get more top end and if you tune it right with lower rpms can easily get over 80 mpg.
JR
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Post by tvnacman on Nov 4, 2011 19:04:21 GMT -6
JR what size sliders does that variator use and is it complete with the fan , if it is complete . are you interested in a trade . I have a reasonable amount of parts , I'm going to order a large amount of leds T5 T10 1157red 1156amber and a few headlight leds .
Think about it answer in a PM if you want .
John
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Post by alleyoop on Nov 5, 2011 13:53:36 GMT -6
John,
The Prodigy comes complete with Fan Face Plate , Variator and Boss and if you buy it from Carlos a set of weights come with it and you can tell him what gram weights you want. The Variator uses 18x14 size weights.
Well if you want to test out a longer belt , you can mark the Clutch pullley at the bottom and run with the OEM and then with the Longer and see which belt goes down all the way, maybe both of them will.
Alleyoop
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Post by tvnacman on Nov 5, 2011 22:06:44 GMT -6
Al , Who is Carlos ?
John
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Post by JR on Nov 5, 2011 22:33:11 GMT -6
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Post by tvnacman on Nov 6, 2011 20:34:15 GMT -6
so I went for a ride today , I picked up nice top end . the inclines are costing me speed . On the flats or down hill it is great . On the flats the chino shows about 60 witch is up from 50 to 55 . on the down hills it climbs to 70 75 . I have not seen speeds like this before . It seem to drop to 55 60 on inclines .
I have the tach installed it idleing about 3000 and at top speed about 7500 .
John
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..BAD TO THE BONE..