Is it me or are 50cc scoots dangerous? By rurc (Read 3,565 times)

[rurc]

First I have been riding scooters for 3 years now. I started with an CF Moto E-Charm 150 FI. I also have a Kymco Xciting 500 (I got this about 18 months ago). Between the 2 I put about 9000 miles a year on them. So I feel I ride a fairly good amount. Knock on wood I have not had any accidents or even a real near miss from a car or truck.

But, I have had the shit scared out of me several times by people riding the little 50cc scoots. Everything from not even slowing down for a stop sign to being hit in the rear because the guy had no idea that he had to let off the throttle for the brakes to really be able to work. when I first thought about getting a scooter to use as daily transportation to and from work I looked into the laws. Well I was not going to get anything less than a 150cc. I felt that anything smaller might be hazardous. I also learned that I needed to get a motorcycle endorsement on my drivers license. To me that made perfect since, learn from others that have been riding for a while so I can be safe for my self.

Well taking the class was the best. It is always the little things you learn at these classes that make the difference. But I was shocked to learn that here in Florida if you are riding a 50cc or smaller bike you are not required to have an endorsement. Now that I have been riding for a while I feel that this is a HUGE mistake. With these under powered scoots you are a hazard to the road. Believing that and watching the huge proliferation of these little scoots in the past 3 years I feel that this must change.

Because of the lack of power and lack of training I am seeing almost weekly accidents just in the county I live in. Without proper training these people are killing themselves and putting that guilt on other drivers that they have involved because they have no idea what they are doing.

I dont want to take this cheap means of transportation away from anyone but I cant be the only one that thinks that the smaller scoot or bike you ride on the streets the more important it is to know what the hell you are doing.

Please answer the poll and give me a comment because I truly believe that people are being injured and killed because they just don't know how to respond in situations on the road.

[JR]

I would answer the poll but I think the poll should include the choice of "it depends". My reason? I have a 50cc scooter along with 4 other different size scooters. What have I used it for? Training of my young stepson, he has now moved up to a 250cc (18 years old) and for a put around ride say when we are at the lake camping and want to just put around a campsite. In this use it is not dangerous.

There are places for everything and a 50cc scooter has it's place but it's limited IMO.

JR

[alleyoop]

Yes, a 50cc is good for just commuting in town 25-30 mph zones but not for long hauls or streets over 35mph.
As you know if the speed limit is 35 people are doing 40-45 and the 50s will not do those speeds.
Alleyoop

[scot]

well I kinda see your point about speed an most insurance companys wont insure them if person has no driver licence,but they are good for those who can not afford something else just want to cruz around town ,if a person hit some one on one . there just as liable as any other on the road so watch for them there out there ,got friend who has one , couse no driver licence ,unless its there fault then there srewed an a person should have uninsured motorist,in NH you can drive on any road except the highways,an they have the right of way ,most I see drive in break down lane ,or on the white line to let other drivers pass,but 30 40 55 mph they can ride them

[rurc]

Apr 9, 2014 18:00:59 GMT -6 JR said:

I would answer the poll but I think the poll should include the choice of "it depends". My reason? I have a 50cc scooter along with 4 other different size scooters. What have I used it for? Training of my young stepson, he has now moved up to a 250cc (18 years old) and for a put around ride say when we are at the lake camping and want to just put around a campsite. In this use it is not dangerous.

There are places for everything and a 50cc scooter has it's place but it's limited IMO.

JR

I agree with you to a point. If it is not being used on a public road then by all means. But if the driving is on the roads I feel these classes are a must.

But I feel there must be a set minimum that all riders must know. Believe me I am all for getting the government out of our daily lives but in all honesty there should be way, way more driver training. I worked for Porsche for 18 years in Germany. I already had my Florida license, but I also had an IMSA, SCCA, and FIA road racing license. I had to get a German license and their training was relentless and excellent at the same time. We would do well to adopt a training system very like the German one.

[rurc]

Apr 9, 2014 20:33:12 GMT -6 alleyoop said:

Yes, a 50cc is good for just commuting in town 25-30 mph zones but not for long hauls or streets over 35mph.
As you know if the speed limit is 35 people are doing 40-45 and the 50s will not do those speeds.
Alleyoop

Thats the problem. I see these little 50cc units everywhere here. I work 6 miles from my home. As I leave to and from work at various times every day I will see at least 5 of the 50's on the 45 MPH roads. Not to mention the 55MPH highway where they can barely hit 40 MPH. It seems that every week or so I see 1 or 2 new scoots I have not see before. These guys drive literally in the gutter or right next to it encouraging cars to pass them in the same lane because they cant even begin to keep up. The police do nothing. I have seen the police pass them, in the same lane, and just keep on driving. That is not safe for anyone.

The scooter drivers I have talked to honestly think they are being safer and courteous that way. Plus they never wear a helmet. I have to say that hitting the ground at 30 MPH is the same no matter if you are riding a big bike or not. I dont want mandatory helmet laws but when you are driving like what I see daily you are stupid not to wear one. I always wear one and a jacket and pants with proper CE pads.

On the road people need more training. At least on the race track you generally know what to expect from every other driver. On the roads here in the US you really dont know what to expect.

[rurc]

I have to say I am shocked that people look at the post and do not vote at all. I am almost equally shocked that so far everyone, except me, has voted that training someone on proper road driving is NOT needed.

No wonder people look at scooter drivers as bumps in the road. A hazard to be driven around as close as possible. I have seen this happen. Luckily I would never own one of these. I wont even ride my 150cc on 55MPH roads and it will do 65 MPH with me on it all day. I can honestly say that 90% of the 50cc drivers I see should not be on the road at all. Seeing that there are so many of these small scooters out and about, and most of the ones I see it is no wonder they give all of us a bad name.

Also if someone has lost their license and is allowed to drive these without a license that is a crime in and of itself.

[JR]

I see a lot of your points, agree with most but as I said there are circumstances where there are applications for this scooter.

To take a training course to ride any two wheeled vehicle IMO is a good thing. I also don't agree with people who can't follow the law getting a free ride on a 50cc scooter with a few exceptions and that exception is the person pays his debt to society, learns their lesson, and becomes a responsible law abiding rider/driver again. People do that sometimes and if they are as we say walking the chalk line, have a job to support themselves and paying that debt then they should get and IMO deserve a second chance.

Should they continue to disobey the law then I'm in favor of putting those kind of people on foot.

I do believe that in a lot of cases the 50cc scooter can be dangerous but like anything one can ride responsibly and help remove some of the danger.

To me you seem to have as we say a ax to grind when it comes to the 50cc scooter and seem to think it represents irresponsible people and IMO the 50cc scooter gets a bad label on that.

JR

[alleyoop]

around here a lot of people commuting to downtwon chicago to their jobs ride thier 50ccs to the train station in towns out here then park them and hop on the train to downtown. They are good drivers and responsible, it saves them in driving the car to the train station where there is limited parking and or have their wives or whomever drop them off every morning and picking them up.
But I do see a problem with the younger folks on the 50s all hunched over trying to gain speed and are careless, those I see as not belonging on the streets with cars. So my thinking is If you do not have a drivers license you cannot drive on any of the main streets period.
my .02
Alleyoop

[scot]

well that may change one day as more people die mabey,but I voted no ,couse whear I live people are responcable with them for the most part ,an in most states until they change the law one can drive without a drivers licence ,,an lets not forget about the bike riders i found them more of a pain then a scooter there are more of them in summer ,an they don't mind rideing on white line or right into the road till you get on them ,they actually have the right away ,just like anyone who is infront you has the right of way no matter the speed being 45 55mph as long as its not the freeway then once they waive you bye your good  ,most states don't have any laws say otherwise,people don't vote I don't know why they don't want to get involved ,they feel there may be hard feelings,you sould see the way they drive in thiland phlipines I wanted to punch every moped user that drives within foot on your car an in an out of traffic ,so we still got is pretty good hear ,they sqeeze in any spot they can get through that would realy drive you nuts ,until they change laws there simpley it wont change ,an this poll if for 50cc right I am all for anything above takeing skills cources,  hear in NH its a choise ,you can take a class I did ,an still got hit being careful,or you can take the short one at dmv an avoid the class ,hear it is like whole weekend an 300.00 ,I notice one thing when I am in heavey traffick is when I avoided accidents at least one time a week when driving a 1000cc they are getting the watch out for motcycles in some people heads an some not ,ok stats of last 24hrs is 33 members 627 guests,so most will say there just readers they should join if there going to take the time to read them an be a guest ,I personaly could not just read I would not be hear if I was not a member,or log in , :-/I scatch my head to ,an there just missing out on being apart of ,I lived in Orlando fla most city road are 30 mph,are you saying there rideing on the freeway i don't think that's good in any state,yes imagine as your siting at light an 20 scooters drive around you an stop inches within you ,overseas the gangs are rideing scooters

[rurc]

Apr 10, 2014 20:23:12 GMT -6 JR said:

I see a lot of your points, agree with most but as I said there are circumstances where there are applications for this scooter.

To take a training course to ride any two wheeled vehicle IMO is a good thing. I also don't agree with people who can't follow the law getting a free ride on a 50cc scooter with a few exceptions and that exception is the person pays his debt to society, learns their lesson, and becomes a responsible law abiding rider/driver again. People do that sometimes and if they are as we say walking the chalk line, have a job to support themselves and paying that debt then they should get and IMO deserve a second chance.

Should they continue to disobey the law then I'm in favor of putting those kind of people on foot.

I do believe that in a lot of cases the 50cc scooter can be dangerous but like anything one can ride responsibly and help remove some of the danger.

To me you seem to have as we say a ax to grind when it comes to the 50cc scooter and seem to think it represents irresponsible people and IMO the 50cc scooter gets a bad label on that.

JR

I see your point and I agree. I know that in Europe, while I was there, people drove these little scoots very reasonably. They seemed to be watching out for them selves. Not relying on others to watch out for them. That is guess would be my 'ax to grind' as you say. It is not the 50 that I have a problem with it is the manor in which I see them driven on a daily basis. At least here in Florida, as compared to many European countries I have seen them driven in. I have not traveled the states much since I moved back here 7 years ago so I cannot say anything about other areas. But central Florida, from St Pete to Daytona and Sebring to Dade City I travel a lot. In all this area a cautious 50cc driver has been few and far between.

I am sure they exist more than I see.

I dont want these little scoots gone by any stretch. I just think that for their safety and mine and everyone else they should be more educated about what they are doing.

Have you ever ridden a Segway?

[rurc]

Apr 10, 2014 20:34:50 GMT -6 alleyoop said:

around here a lot of people commuting to downtwon chicago to their jobs ride thier 50ccs to the train station in towns out here then park them and hop on the train to downtown. They are good drivers and responsible, it saves them in driving the car to the train station where there is limited parking and or have their wives or whomever drop them off every morning and picking them up.
But I do see a problem with the younger folks on the 50s all hunched over trying to gain speed and are careless, those I see as not belonging on the streets with cars. So my thinking is If you do not have a drivers license you cannot drive on any of the main streets period.
my .02
Alleyoop

alleyoop, AWESOME. as I think about things I guess that I have to say the the vast majority of the time I see this poor driving is from a younger driver. I am going to make a better study of this and see if that is really the full trend.

The problem is here in Florida as I understand you dont even need a drivers license to drive one of these. But I still think that education is needed.

So maybe it is mostly that Floridians are incapable of driving little scooters. That is possible.

[rurc]

Apr 11, 2014 12:39:41 GMT -6 scot said:

well that may change one day as more people die mabey,but I voted no ,couse whear I live people are responcable with them for the most part ,an in most states until they change the law one can drive without a drivers licence ,,an lets not forget about the bike riders i found them more of a pain then a scooter there are more of them in summer ,an they don't mind rideing on white line or right into the road till you get on them ,they actually have the right away ,just like anyone who is infront you has the right of way no matter the speed being 45 55mph as long as its not the freeway then once they waive you bye your good  ,most states don't have any laws say otherwise,people don't vote I don't know why they don't want to get involved ,they feel there may be hard feelings,you sould see the way they drive in thiland phlipines I wanted to punch every moped user that drives within foot on your car an in an out of traffic ,so we still got is pretty good hear ,they sqeeze in any spot they can get through that would realy drive you nuts ,until they change laws there simpley it wont change ,an this poll if for 50cc right I am all for anything above takeing skills cources,  hear in NH its a choise ,you can take a class I did ,an still got hit being careful,or you can take the short one at dmv an avoid the class ,hear it is like whole weekend an 300.00 ,I notice one thing when I am in heavey traffick is when I avoided accidents at least one time a week when driving a 1000cc they are getting the watch out for motcycles in some people heads an some not ,ok stats of last 24hrs is 33 members 627 guests,so most will say there just readers they should join if there going to take the time to read them an be a guest ,I personaly could not just read I would not be hear if I was not a member,or log in , :-/I scatch my head to ,an there just missing out on being apart of ,I lived in Orlando fla most city road are 30 mph,are you saying there rideing on the freeway i don't think that's good in any state,yes imagine as your siting at light an 20 scooters drive around you an stop inches within you ,overseas the gangs are rideing scooters

Paragraphs man, paragraphs.

I dont see them on the freeway, like I4 (being from Orlando you will know that one). But on the highway like US 19 in Pinellas county, oh yes every day I see them there. Even on remote county roads where the speed limits are 55 to 60 like by Ocala they are out there blocking traffic. Yes they will pull to the far right side of the road and tell you to pass them. But here in Florida that is illegal. You cannot pass a vehicle in the same lane.

Even on roads where the limit is 45 you know that everyone tries to go 50 or a little more. There they are. I really wonder if they realize how in danger they are.

[JR]

No sir I haven't ever ridden a Segway. I do know that in Florida they pose a problem sometimes, not downing the good people of Florida. I think it's because the weather permits more of a year round riding arena.

I even saw a video for electric scooters for those who can't keep a license and I think they were even advertising it as DUI Scooters or something like that, very wrong IMO.

JR

[cyborg]

it's a weird call for me,,,i think everyone should be licensed and insured,,,i would never buy a 4 stroke 50,,,too slow for this area where i live,,,,a 2 stroke maybe geez even my 150 is marginal on certain roads where it's 45 mph limit,,,everyone is going 60,,,,,for me i think a 100cc minimum with a transmission that you shift,,,,