E-Charm Charge Issues By SuperDaveGulvak (Read 4,214 times)

[SuperDaveGulvak]

Ok so all 3 wires coming of the stator are black so no idea how to test that but did notice the wires in back of plug were loose so I pushed them in good. Now I get 12.8/9 at idle & 13+v on throttle but only with the headlight off? Idle volts drop to about 12.3 & about 12.9 on throttle when headlight is on. Gonna try to get a video so you guys can see the multimeter later today. So you think there is a bad ground on headlight or some kind of a short? Or does this make sense if the rectifier regulator goes bad & can't handle a load being put on it?

[JR]

Ok Dave I looked at the E-charm diagram and from the stator which BTW is a 3 phase stator you have 5 wires;

3 Yellow = AC feed from stator to R/R
Green = ground
Black/white = pulse sensor or pick up coil to CDI

Now R/R should have 6 wires total they are probably in two plugs;

3 wires (you say black) plug into the 3 yellow AC feed wires from the stator
Black = 12Vdc ignition wire, this wire reads and regulates the output of the R/R
Green = ground
Black or brown/white = charge voltage from R/R to battery.

Now can you tell me voltages before you were having issues and currently is the battery going dead? The loose connection is one thing that's a killer on these charging systems, they are nominal sometimes at best.

The 13Vdc + is great but with the light on you're going to lose ground on the battery especially when the fan comes on, in fact with the fan on you'll have a dead battery in less than an hour. Also remember this is a DC powered CDI so if the battery is weak the scooter won't even start.

OK since it's a 3-phase stator make sure your battery is up good so the scooter will start easily and she'll run for us a spell and unplug the R/R from the 3 wires going to the stator. We can test the stator and make sure it's OK. Most 3 phase stators put out anywhere fro 50Vac to 90Vac on all 3 legs.

So get you meter out and set it on the AC side at a range of 200 or better, start the scooter and check the voltage on all 3 legs at idle as in wire;

1 to 2
1 to 3
2 to 3

The voltages should be very close to the same on all 3 legs. Next idle it up to about 5k and test to make sure they all are putting out the same and they should have a good increase.

If all is well there then make sure you do have a very good connection on all of the wires going to the R/R and then test the voltage on the brown or black/white wire going to the battery. Also the diagram shows a fuse on the red wire right after where the brown or black/white wire ties on a 20A. Make sure this fuse is good and making good contact. Also as I said earlier make sure the battery is charged at 12.Vdc or better.

At this point I'm saying bad wires and or connections. I like to test istead of just throwing parts at a problem.

We'll await your findings.

JR

[SuperDaveGulvak]

Hey man thanks for the info. I looked at the wiring diagram on here & noticed my wires are different colors- didn't know the other 2 thinner gauge wires coming out were also part of the stator so sorry about bad info. Just got confused with different colors but I understand your instructions of testing stator I will check it out in morning put scooter in the shed as it is kinds cloudy here thought we might get that scattered storm. Yeah I noticed the fuse box seemed very cheap & loose when I first checked the fuses. Maybe I will grab some silicone in morning & push pins in good then silicone them. Appreciate the help & will keep you posted. Need to get this fixed can tell the girl isn't happy with my new ride crapping out in a month & it's never good to ruffle the feathers of your tail ; )>

[JR]

Hey no problem Superdave and the color difference is a standard thing on these scooters, main thing is where they go.

Now the other two wires coming from the stator are not part of the charging system, other than you could say the ground is but the other wire only goes to the CDI and tells it when to fire.

So again lets test the stator and go from there.

JR

[JR]

Dave did a little more checking and we have the E-Charm Service manual and your scooter is the EFI model right? They made both in 09 a carb and a EFI. If the scooter is a EFI one then this stator puts out more if it's like all other EFI scooters.

The ECharm Service Manual is here;

thescooterprofessor.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=5200&action=display&thread=766

Go to page 190 and it tells you the testing specs of this stator and unlike what you've been told elsewhere you test this stator with no load which means with it unhooked.

This baby under no load cranks out 140Vac at 5k RPM.



JR

[SuperDaveGulvak]

Hey man thanks again. Still on the pile of dishes but am gonna def take your advice & test the stator to your specs. I want ya to know I mean no disrespect by going other places just trying to cover bases & gather as much info as possible. I respect you taking the time to dig up info & posting sources to back your knowledge I'm pretty new to digging for info on these forums. Once again thank you & will keep you posted today

[SuperDaveGulvak]

Oh & forgot yes it is the EFI model......modified my sig to help in future Well I tried to update it maybe my phone browser won't allow the updated sig to stick?

[SuperDaveGulvak]

Ha ha think I got it figured out mobile browser kept putting my user name in the email box. It also updated my profile & said it sent a new activation code to my "new" email. Is this gonna be a problem if I get logged out & try to log back in?

[JR]

No just put in your new activation code and all should be fine. If you have trouble contact me.

Also you were not showing any disresepct at all SuperDave. I know people look in a lot of places for information but the reason I said what I did was to let you know that even though the other scooter is similiar it is not either so I didn't want you to be looking at the wrong voltage outputs.

The Pegasus is a carb scooter while like I said CfMoto made two vesrsions of the E-Charm in 09 carb and EFI. With EFI one needs more output and I also know that CfMoto has used different stators in their scooters just for this reason from all I've gathered.

We also have the service manual for the EFI model which is a huge manual and really gives service man details on how to fix this scooter. The Spec sheet above that I listed does give accurate ohm readings on the stator along with the correct way to check and the correct voltage output of the stator. Some say you can't go by ohm readings with these stators and the volt meters aren't good enough to do that test and I say that it can be done with a good medium to high rated meter. For those who want to use the cheap tone type meters it'll be a problem.

So don't worry about the "other" place as far as me, I just want to see you get this cool scooter of your's on the road and we're here when you need us.

JR

[SuperDaveGulvak]

Ok so they all 3 had about a steady 18 at idle when set to 200 on AC & no tach but I revved it pretty high a tried to get the same pitch from motor exhaust resulting in around mid 90s on all 3. Will post pics in a bit to show how I had clips hooked up to verify I had it hooked up correctly.

[SuperDaveGulvak]

Hmmmm I'm so confused with electrical issues. This really has me down as I had 2 road trips planned in next month My meter is a cheap harbor freight model- all that's in budget & usually try to steer away from electrical as I'm completely in the dark. So now I tested the volts at battery while I had access to the fuse wire plugs to jiggle them to see if I could notice drops due to wires. Starts at little over 13v now but drops under acceleration?

[SuperDaveGulvak]

Testing poles 1-2

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[SuperDaveGulvak]

Testing poles 1-3

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[SuperDaveGulvak]

Testing poles 2-3

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[SuperDaveGulvak]

Meter setting while testing AC on stator

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