witch gas? By issue31 (Read 1,349 times)

[issue31]

Ethanol or non ethanol gas?
Here in Minnesota we have 10% ethanol in our gas.
Should this be run in a 09 125 Buddy, or maybe a 170fi? I can get premium non ethanol gas at some places out of town. Would this be better? How would premium non ethanol stand op in a 5 gal gas can during summer? Do not want to run 50 miles for gas all the time. Thanks for your advice! Issue31

[terrilee]

dont use any "WITCH" gas
use "WARLOCK"

[mauiboy]

We are just starting to get ethanol free gas here (technically I guess we are getting it back). Ethanol free gas is exactly what you would have purchased a few years back. Ethanol in gas is a very contentious subject so I will try and stay clear of causing arguments lol.

The theory is that by putting ethanol in gas it will burn cleaning and not need as much crude oil to make 1 gallon of gas, reducing our need to import crude. Both very good things. Basically about 10 years ago the concept started to take off, things like 'flex fuel' engines were introduced and worldwide companies started putting ethanol in gas more and more. Most places have between 5 and 15% ethanol in their gas.
Problems with it are
-its destructive effects on older engines (mostly due to its corrosive nature on tubes etc and it not being able to sit in a tank for a long time without a stabiliser being added),
-the fact it is hydrophillic (loves water, it will cause the fuel over time to absorb water, albeit in small quantities but not good) which can be a small issue in humid areas
-the govt gave (not sure if it still does) the industry billions in subsidies / tax credits, every year to do this
-using corn / grain / potatoes etc to make ethanol pushes up the price of food we buy because of increased competition for raw products, and damnit ethanol belongs in vodka!
- I have heard a few people complain that it gums up your injectors if the vehicle is left to sit but its hard to tell how valid this is as most fuel will do that if you don't add some stabiliser.

So what should you use, ethanol fuel is unlikely to damage your scoot, not as likely as say using the wrong grade oil or too low an octane fuel would. I would suggest trying a few full tanks of both and seeing if you notice a difference. Ethanol free is not 'worse' or even new, its what you would have bought 15 years ago. The question is going to be what is the price difference. Here it was an extra 3 bucks a gallon for ethanol free, now more companies are doing it the price is pretty similar. If the price is the same and the octane rating is high enough then personally I would go for ethanol free but 92 octane 10% ethanol fuel should be fine in your scoot as well I wouldn't drive 50 miles for gas just to get ethanol free. It should last in a can better than 10% ethanol blend would (less likely to separate or absorb water from the air) but until you can get it within a few miles I wouldn't bother. It used to be only 1 pump on island had it here, now they're getting it down to road so I will be switching but it wasn't enough of an issue before to drive 30 miles to get some. If you had a 1930's classic vehicle I would probably favour ethanol free, more modern engines it shouldn't be a huge issue which you pick. I believe they tend to say 2001 and newer is fine with the blended ethanol fuel.

[JR]

Very good points and well written. Myself I hate ethanol fuel, two simple reasons, one I retired from the metal and maintenance end of the food industry in the poultry and meat area. As you stated we need to feed people and animals, ethanol alone has driven meat prices sky high especially chicken. Simply put if you were a farmer and could get more for bushel for gas than feed what would you do?

Second it's known proven knowledge that motor vehicles get poorer mileage on ethanol. Hardly makes any sense? We need to save money, actually ride a scooter for fun and better mileage per gallon of gas and the government is pushing gasoline that gets poorer mileage per gallon, pays farmers more to raise it, makes our own food supply cost go up and then in some places we have no choice but to buy it.

I'm lucky I buy ethanol free gas at a little store only 5 miles up the road from me and it's the lower cost one, in fact all 3 grades are ethanol free. In Arkansas stores that sell ethanol free put big signs up announcing ethanol free and it's actually cheaper than ethanol fuel by about 5 cents per gallon.

I've tested ethanol fuel on everything I drive, it averages about 3 MPG less and that's a crock. I really don't notice any difference in the performance on my scooters but I do in my 93 Chevy Silverado for sure, it just doesn't run as well.

But I'll agree with mauiboy, I wouldn't drive 50 extra miles for ethanol free and even pay more for it. I'd run the ethanol gas in my scooter and also if you have good quality gas cans that seal well you can store gas for awhile if you happen to go to the ethanol free place and want to purchase some.

I buy about 5 cans full at a time for my lawn mower. I have over 3 acres to mow and if you put ethanol gas in the mower every time you turn the engine off it pops very loudly, doesn't do it with ethanol free gas. The gas holds up well because I store it in a coll place out of the sun and again use good cans.

JR

[mauiboy]

3 acres, buy a goat! Saves on gas and fertiliser!

I very much agree with regard to fuel prices, the subsidies / tax credits etc made the situation much worse as well. I can understand the benefits of making the ethanol from a by-product of another process (coconut husks or something similar that would otherwise go to waste) but using prime growing land and take away crops that otherwise we would eat just makes life more expensive. The subsidies etc just distorted the market and we paid for it both in the lost tax revenue AND when we buy food.

Like many choices in life the best one is not always the most popular. We do need less reliance on oil. It will not last for ever, it released carbon that has been trapped underground for tens of millions of years back into the atmosphere and leaves us more vulnerable to and reliant on other countries. The answer is probably quite a few things but basically if we stand a chance we need to become reliant on autotrophs and less like heterotrophs. Solar power and fusion are our best bets for power generation and we need to be more frugal with our power.
I am completely mystified that living somewhere that is constantly between 70 and 85 degrees we do not (and in many cases are not allowed to) dry our clothes outside, instead using tumble dryers which use a lot of energy to create heat. The kicker is at the same time we are using even more electricity to make the air inside the house cold and kick hot air outside the AC unit. We we cannot use solar to power the ac and use the hot air outlet from the ac to power the dryer is beyond me. It's not rocket science, its about 20 feet of ducting, most of which already exists for the air outlet from the dryer anyway.
We also don't need such wasteful engines. Once the car companies have been forced to increase their efficiency they have been able to readily do so. The sky has not fallen, trucks do not cost five times as much, but hey now they do more than 8mpg! Our old f150 used to be abysmal on gas, the newer turbo ones actually aren't that bad and cars are getting into the 40mpg range. It just isn't popular so it takes a brave govt to actually make an unpopular change (irrespective of which brand you like).
You are very lucky JR! to have eth free be local and cheaper!! It is actually cheaper to make so I'm guessing the subsidies are ending.

[issue31]

:)sorry about the typo! Found a gas station this weekend just across the river in WI. that has ethanol free gas! Just 20 miles away. Thank you much for all the info! issue31

[JR]

Mar 11, 2012 15:42:00 GMT -6 @mauiboy said:

3 acres, buy a goat! Saves on gas and fertiliser!

I very much agree with regard to fuel prices, the subsidies / tax credits etc made the situation much worse as well. I can understand the benefits of making the ethanol from a by-product of another process (coconut husks or something similar that would otherwise go to waste) but using prime growing land and take away crops that otherwise we would eat just makes life more expensive. The subsidies etc just distorted the market and we paid for it both in the lost tax revenue AND when we buy food.

Like many choices in life the best one is not always the most popular. We do need less reliance on oil. It will not last for ever, it released carbon that has been trapped underground for tens of millions of years back into the atmosphere and leaves us more vulnerable to and reliant on other countries. The answer is probably quite a few things but basically if we stand a chance we need to become reliant on autotrophs and less like heterotrophs. Solar power and fusion are our best bets for power generation and we need to be more frugal with our power.
I am completely mystified that living somewhere that is constantly between 70 and 85 degrees we do not (and in many cases are not allowed to) dry our clothes outside, instead using tumble dryers which use a lot of energy to create heat. The kicker is at the same time we are using even more electricity to make the air inside the house cold and kick hot air outside the AC unit. We we cannot use solar to power the ac and use the hot air outlet from the ac to power the dryer is beyond me. It's not rocket science, its about 20 feet of ducting, most of which already exists for the air outlet from the dryer anyway.
We also don't need such wasteful engines. Once the car companies have been forced to increase their efficiency they have been able to readily do so. The sky has not fallen, trucks do not cost five times as much, but hey now they do more than 8mpg! Our old f150 used to be abysmal on gas, the newer turbo ones actually aren't that bad and cars are getting into the 40mpg range. It just isn't popular so it takes a brave govt to actually make an unpopular change (irrespective of which brand you like).
You are very lucky JR! to have eth free be local and cheaper!! It is actually cheaper to make so I'm guessing the subsidies are ending.

Saves on gas and fertiliser!

Don't think I haven't thought of it! I actually own 5 acres but with building a garden areas and orchards probably only mow about 3 acres.

JR

[jct842]

My thoughts on ethenol in small engines is with the smaller jet sizes and the fact they almost never get daily use, it is bad news period. hard to find it at airports and marinas too, I wonder why? Maybe with a boat or airplane and the "now you walk" light comes on..........!

[terrilee]

Mar 12, 2012 8:27:17 GMT -6 issue31 said:

:)sorry about the typo! Found a gas station this weekend just across the river in WI. that has ethanol free gas! Just 20 miles away. Thank you much for all the info! issue31

31


i was just trying to get SMILES ;D

[issue31]

no problem, we all make mistakes once in a while. ;D