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Post by ccbic on May 18, 2012 21:15:47 GMT -6
Is your coolant circulating freely from the radiator to the engine and back to the radiator with no restrictions? No lines pinched down, twisted, or blocked by something inside? Your water pump is pushing the coolant properly? I had a line where the wall separated and the inside would actually bubble and swell almost shut when it got hot but the outside would slightly wrinkle otherwise it looked fine. Took a little while to figure that one out. Just some ideas.
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Post by ccbic on May 18, 2012 20:57:30 GMT -6
I have this exact scooter called the Tank Urban Touring 250. It has the vertical, 244cc Honda Clone engine. Mine has all the bells and whistles - stereo, remote start, alarm. I found a blog from 2006-2007 when these scoots were new. The reviewer had aquired the new (back then) scooter for test riding. He explained that these were originally sold as 150cc bikes. Around 2006, under the brand names Jonway, Tank, Sunny, Roketta, and many others, the design was altered to accommodate a 250cc engine/cvt setup. Back then the scooter world loved them because it was a powerful engine on a common and smaller frame. That these were originally 150cc bikes converted to 250cc may explain why you are finding variances in the equipment, wiring, etc. Attachments:
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Post by ccbic on May 18, 2012 16:10:10 GMT -6
Check the manifold between the carb and engine, the rubber boot the carb slides into, for cracks. You have to put pressure on the carb - up or down to see the crack (if there). I am working through similar problems on my scoot and a cracked manifold boot was a big part of the problem. I couldn't see it until putting pressure on the carb.
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Post by ccbic on May 18, 2012 15:50:50 GMT -6
I just bought a carb from these guys. Works great although I think all the carbs are the same even if they are listed for different, specific models.
The one I bought fits and looks perfect but the scooter feels just a little sluggish compared to the old carb. I'm going to check the jets and swap out the old jets to the new carb if there is a difference, that is if they fit. Just something to think about.
Otherwise a fantastic buy at that price and I have to say these kinds of deals do not stay around although the seller on ebay seems to have a lot of stock to sell.
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Post by ccbic on May 18, 2012 15:26:30 GMT -6
UPDATE: I can drive the scooter back and fourth to work.
First off, thanks to cruiser for suggesting an air leak around the intake manifold, way in the beginning of this thread. I should have checked this much closer. This one was a sneaky sob.
The manifold on these scooters is a rubber boot that clamps to the carb and all of that is molded to a steel block that bolts to the engine. There was a crack right at the corner where the rubber boot meets the steel block. You could not see it when the scooter was sitting there or even when it was running. I found it because I was taking the carb off to make an adjustment. When I wiggled the carb up and down to get it free, I noticed the crack in the manifold. Earlier I sprayed starter fluid around it to see if the motor bogged or raced. That normally tells me if I have a manifold leak, that is when working with all metal parts like on a car. Because this manifold is rubber, it stayed sealed sometimes and leaked other times, depending on the circumstances. This will be very hard to find if you do not look specifically for it.
So I've replaced the fuel filter, carb, and manifold for a total of 68 dollars including shipping. I've also adjusted the valves using the hot method and now the scooter starts perfectly, just like it used to on the first crank. It also runs good but not quite like it used to but its getting there.
Thanks to everyone who has posted their ideas here. Some pan out and some just eliminate another possible problems. All are helping. I've tried every idea and am slowly getting the scooter back to good.
Next, I'm running through alleyoops's method for adjusting the carb. I still have some hesitation. Also, a newer issue is that the scooter almost stalls after coming to a stop. It sits and chugs very slowly for 15 or 20 seconds after stopping and then it recovers and starts to idle fine. If I turn the idle screw to raise the rpms it works great until I park it for a little bit. Then when I start it, it races too fast and wants to engage the transmission . So I adjust it back down, then the slow chugging at stop comes back. I'm only turning the idle screw a 1/16th to 1/8th of a turn up or back down.
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Post by ccbic on May 3, 2012 19:58:34 GMT -6
I was working out a way to test the fuel pump when I stumbled on an improvement to the hard start issue.
I took the cover off of the airbox where the air filter is mounted and tried to start it. It started when i added a little throttle. I couldn't add any throttle before; if I did it would just not start.
I checked the air filter and the bottom half of it is wet with something. I drained the air-box tube 2 times in the same day a week or two ago, so I'm thinking the fluid backed up into the air filter. I had just learned you have to drain the air-box tube.
So, for now it looks like the engine is starved for air. With the air filter off it starts pretty good. I just don't think it should be that sensitive to air flow. If most of the air filter were soaked I could see having this problem but with over half of it being dry it should have started okay so I am going to try to lean out the air fuel mix by adjusting the carb. Does this make sense or are these engines more sensitive than I am thinking?
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Post by ccbic on May 2, 2012 21:46:24 GMT -6
I checked - no water in the gas.
Before I get into adjusting the carb I want to be sure the fuel pump is working correctly. I know it runs off vacuum. I can see the vacuum line running from the y connector off the intake manifold to the fuel pump.
How do I test it? Am I looking for anything other than fuel flow?
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Post by ccbic on May 1, 2012 21:24:29 GMT -6
OK. I've set the valves with the "running engine" method as listed in the above link. No change.
Still have the same hard start problem and sputtering.
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Post by ccbic on May 1, 2012 20:07:06 GMT -6
I adjusted the valves with the engine cold.
So you're saying to start the engine, let it run until its warmed up (the fan comes on), turn the engine off, then adjust the valves as before, allowing the .004" lash?
Any other details?
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Post by ccbic on May 1, 2012 16:00:34 GMT -6
Well, I know why there is no video for the valve adjustment on the cfmotto 244cc engine. It does not have the standard internally adjustable valves. The adjusters you see on the outside of the engine are the only way to change the valve lash. The rocker arms are mounted on eccentrics inside the cover not on the cylinder head as normal. The adjusters on the outside work the eccentric to move the rocker arms up - away from the valves, and down - towards the valves. One tick mark on adjuster equals .004 inch, which is the specified valve lash for the engine.
Per the manual, here are the steps in case anyone is wondering... ***Do not remove the cylinder cover to adjust the valves on this engine. You are not able to make adjustments with the cover off. 1. Set the cylinder to top dead center 2. Loosen the screw holding the adjuster in place 3. Move the adjuster back and forth until it moves freely 4. Move back until it stops. It stops because you have closed the valve lash all the way. It is possible to push so hard the valve opens. This is not what you want. Just move it back until you feel it make contact with the valve and cam lobe - i.e. it stops with a little pressure on it. 5. Now move the adjuster towards being more loose by one tick mark. This sets the valve lash to .004 inch. You can go more if you prefer .006 inch lash. Just move the adjuster 1 and 1/2 tic marks. 6. Lock it down. 7. Repeat on the other valve.
I adjusted the valves and still have the same hard start and sputtering problems.
I did zip-tie the vaccuum line around the nozzle on the intake manifold. After I got it running, I sprayed starting fluid around the manifold between the carb and engine. The engine did not rev or bog - no change at all, so I'm guessing the seal around the carb is good - no air leaks.
I haven't made any adjustments to the carb.
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Post by ccbic on Apr 20, 2012 18:36:34 GMT -6
2006 250cc Tank Urban Touring CFMotto 244 Vertical Engine Around 6000 miles
A member of a different scooter forum sent me your link. Said this is the best site for 250cc issues and suggested posting here. So here goes.
My scooter severely overheated at the end of the riding season last year. During a long trip, my cooling fan bearings went out + temp sensor quit working = very, very hot, to where it would not run = replaced the head gasket, fan, and fan switch and temp sending unit.
Well, it ran great for two days after the new parts. But now I have a hard start issue. Got stranded at work last week.
Never had any major problems before. It mostly started on the first crank, ran strong and was dependable. I had no problem trusting it for 100 mile round trip distances.
Now I don't trust it to get me to work 5 miles away!
With this scooter, the headlights come on just after the engine starts running, not before. They are not on while the starter is cranking the engine. It would just start then the headlights come on, then it would die. I cheated the main fuse plug so the headlight pin was pushed to the outside of the male plug so the headlights didn't come on at all. When it was setup like this, the engine would start, but just barely. I have to crank it over and over to the point I think the battery is going to die, then it starts. When it does start, it barely runs as fast as when the starter is cranking it, and seems like it could die at any time. After a couple of minutes, it gets stronger and I can drive it.
Battery was new last year, stored w/ Craftsman trickle charger over the winter and tested good this year. It cranks the motor fast and for a long time before starting to slow down.
Also: 3 days after figuring out how to get it started without a jump, and driving it every day, it now sputters when taking off from a stop, even after it's warmed up. It sputters at every stop sign/light. I can ride for a half hour and it is still doing this when taking off. It also sputters if I am at low throttle, cruising around 20 to 25 mph.
Also: I cannot get the bubbles in the cooling system worked out. Not sure I am "burping" the system correctly. I let it warm up, pull the cooling line to the warming block on the carb off, let the air push out until I see a little coolant, replace the line and repeat until I see solid coolant pushing out of the warming block. Still have bubbles like an aquarium pump.
Most recently, I replaced the spark plug and double checked that the new plug is good - it is. I also drained the tube that hangs off the air box assembly, the one with the plug in the end of it. The battery charges fine when riding.
I'd like to adjust the valves - The only video I can find on it is the one that shows you how to adjust the valves when the engine is warm and running. I'd like to do it the old fashioned way at first, then use the other method if needed for final adjustment. Anyone know the specs/method/which is the exhaust valve/which is the intake valve?
I just want my old scooter back. Its not even nice to look at but it ran well and was dependable which made it fun to have. Now, its becoming a real headache.
I can do the mechanical work, I struggle with diagnosing the issues and I can't afford to keep throwing money at it hoping something gets fixed. Any ideas will be used and are appreciated.
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