|
|
Post by ellpee on Sept 5, 2014 16:42:26 GMT -6
We've been "enjoying" a lot of rain lately, badly needed but sure cuts into scootering time. So anyhow, the Magnum sat in the garage for the better part of three weeks, AT LEAST, maybe longer. I did start it up and run it once or twice, briefly, with nothing abnormal.
So yesterday I had a sunny-day window and took it out for a run. But it took me several minutes of intermittent cranking before she finally kicked over. After the expected 3-4 cranks to refill the fuel lines and carb I could hear her trying, rrrrrr-rrrrr-rrrrr-putt-rrrrr-putt putt--rrrrr etc., etc., but it wouldn't start and hold. Much different from any previous experience. Once she actually started running, all was okay, went on a ~15-mile run around town with no problems, even up some pretty steep mountain roads. Thoughts? Scoot has right around 1300 miles. Is it possible that I could already need to check the valves at this low mileage? Are there other possibilities?
|
|
|
|
Post by alleyoop on Sept 5, 2014 19:35:40 GMT -6
If the valves need adjusting it will also be a hard starter when hot, so if it starts good hot then it is not the valves it is just it took more cranking to fill the carb and clear out any little bits of varnish built up.
Alleyoop
|
|
|
|
Post by ellpee on Sept 6, 2014 7:46:15 GMT -6
I made several stops along the way, and it started fine each time, so I'm comforted. Was just concerned because it hasn't happened that way previously. I do use a fuel additive regularly, forget the name just this moment, thought that would keep varnish from building up, especially over no more than a 3-4 week period.  Oops, spoke too soon. Went down just now (late afternoon), scooter has now been standing for a couple days, and once again it doesn't want to start. Same as before, can hear it firing once in awhile while cranking, but it won't "catch." Checked plug, a little black but not real bad, cleaned it, good strong spark. Checked the airbox, which has been jiggling loose from the carb, but it's fine. Gave up after several minutes, didn't want to drain the battery or overstress the starter motor, but what the hey has changed? As I said in OP, once it started the other day it ran fine, including restarts at various stops along the way, which I should think rules out a lot of things. The gas in it now is from a canister I had in the garage, but it came from a station I've used before without problems, and as I also said in OP, I do have some fuel additive in there. I haven't done anything whatsoever to the carburetor. Sure would like to figure this out, or I'll be replacing the starter! Tempted to drain the gas tank and start over, but will wait a bit to see who else chimes in here. |
|
|
|
Post by ellpee on Sept 7, 2014 17:08:00 GMT -6
Next day, and worse instead of better. I get only a couple of "chuffs" on the first crank or two, then nothing but starter sounds. Plug is clean, spark is good, vacuum seems okay, fuel filter is full so presuming fuel pump is pumping. spritzed some starter fluid into the little vent tube while cranking, nothing. Opened the diaphragm chamber, everything looked to be okay, spritzed some carb cleaner in there, closed everything up again, cranked, nothing. Let it sit for an hour or so and tried again, once again got a couple of wimpy chuffs on the first crank or two, then nothing. It has me scratching my head, because as I wrote, the last time I actually got it started after many, many cranks, it ran fine for a good hour as I ran all over town; also started fine at several intermediate stops, presumably after everything was warmed up nicely.
So I'm suspecting some carburetor issue when everything is cold, but have no idea what it might be. Hoping someone here can steer me in the right direction. Can't have the local shop work on it if I can't get it started to drive it down there, and if I pull the carb and take it down to them, it'll be a shot in the dark whether they can find the problem without actually being able to put it back on and run the scooter. I'm prepared to pull the carb and look for obvious stuff like clogged jets myself, but am really pretty clueless about carburetors, so all advice is welcome.
|
|
|
|
Post by alleyoop on Sept 8, 2014 21:52:52 GMT -6
Check the enricher and see if the cylinder is retracted and not stuck in the extended position which cuts off fuel for cold starts.
|
|
|
|
Post by ellpee on Sept 9, 2014 7:46:41 GMT -6
I went down and talked to both of the repair shops in town yesterday, and got the same "Aha!" reaction from each of them when I said my most recent fillup was from a 3-gallon canister that had been stashed in the garage all winter, about nine months total as I recall. They recommended completely draining all fuel and refilling it with fresh gas as experiment #1. I've siphoned the tank empty so far, and am trying to find the carburetor drain plug so I can get all the gas out of there as well. Does anyone happen to have a picture of the carburetor on a horizontal 376(?)cc engine that shows where the drain plug is? I haven't yet been able to spot it.
HOWEVER, while doing the above I also discovered a two-wire connector on the right side, close to the starter solenoid, that had come unplugged, and it LOOKS like the feed to the enricher! So Alley, your suggestion may be spot on. I'll get a gallon of fresh gas and put it in, then try again with that plug re-connected.
|
|
|
|
Post by alleyoop on Sept 9, 2014 19:58:45 GMT -6
The drain is on the bottom of the carb it may have a built in drain screw or if not it will be on the end of the drain hose. Also about the ENRICHER if it is not plugged in, would not be the problem for cold starts it would be a problem after it had already warmed up and the reason is BY DEFAULT the enricher is retracted and applying voltage to it makes it EXTEND and cut off the extra fuel. But it sounds more like the OLD GAS now that you said it was sitting around for almost a year. But you can still check the ENRICHER and make sure it is plugged in just follow the wires from the ENRICHER and see if it is plugged in. Take it off and see if it is retracted or extended.  |
|
|
|
Post by ellpee on Sept 10, 2014 8:14:59 GMT -6
Interesting. Gonna do the new gas thing today and see what happens. So if the enricher was unplugged the carb would have been feeding extra gas all the time? Seems like that would have resulted in a too-rich situation and been a problem in its own right at some point. When I checked the plug it had a little bit of dark brown to black crud on it, but not very much, nothing like when I first got the scooter and it was still set for sea level.
BTW, a little bit off subject, but as I was pondering this latest problem I got to thinking about that out-of-the-box too-rich situation. My solution last summer was new, high altitude jets, and it's been fine, but in another thread we were discussing replacing the airbox with an after-market air filter, and somebody (Alley? JR?) said that would likely let in more air and require other downstream adjustments to compensate. Wondering if a different air filter back then would have had the effect of leaning out my otherwise-way-too-rich mixture, and been an alternate way to fix the problem.
|
|
|
|
Post by ellpee on Sept 10, 2014 11:40:43 GMT -6
LUNCHTIME UPDATE: drained as much gas as possible, new hi-test gas standing by. Pulled enricher, but after watching Alleyoop's video about enrichers, beginning to think I dropped a part while removing it -- I don't have any of those metallic "needle valve" type pieces sticking out of it! Headed downstairs now to search the engine compartment as thoroughly as possible. Grr, one darn thing after another.
Curiouser and curiouser. I went down and searched every nook and cranny of the engine compartment, and the garage floor under the scooter, and found nothing resembling those needle valve thingies. Are ALL enrichers supposed to look like the one in Alley's video? Mechanically that would make sense, but I can't find any such parts lying around anywhere on top of or beneath the engine/carburetor. After some googling, I've convinced myself that it must nonetheless have fallen out and I didn't notice, so before things can proceed I'll need a new enricher. RATZ!!! Neither repair shop in our little town has one in stock, so I've ordered it on line. Still mystifies me how that needle valve part could have broken off.
|
|
|
|
Post by alleyoop on Sept 10, 2014 17:23:29 GMT -6
O, if the needle is missing or broke off it may be still in the enricher holder the needle has it's own space and it blocks off the fuel from coming in. Here is my carb with enricher holder off so you can see how things work. Alleyoop  |
|
|
|
Post by ellpee on Sept 11, 2014 0:13:23 GMT -6
Can't see any sign of it from above, and if I understand how the needle works, it shouldn't be able to drop completely through the little hole, as it's supposed to act like a plug when extended, ja? And from pictures I've seen, the upper part of the needle is way too big to have dropped down inside the carb. I took some pix but was unable to post them as the forum has apparently exceeded its limit for attaching files. Anyhow, I have 4-5 days to wait for the new enricher, so will investigate further while waiting. It's all a learning experience, right?
|
|
|
|
Post by ellpee on Sept 11, 2014 8:13:43 GMT -6
Been awhile since I posted pix from a web host, hope I remembered it right: Here's a shot of what my enricher looked like when I removed it, no needle valve to be seen, and nothing to be seen in the hole where it fits. Go figure.   |
|
|
|
Post by alleyoop on Sept 11, 2014 11:57:14 GMT -6
Well that is your hard Cold starting problem Simple fix No extra fuel for cold starts  Alleyoop  |
|
|
|
Post by ellpee on Sept 11, 2014 18:02:42 GMT -6
I tried to pull it out this morning, wrapped some double-sticky tape around a small nail and put in down inside that gold piece, but it wouldn't budge, and I didn't want to try too hard and maybe screw something else up. It seemed very firmly in place. I just went down and tried again with my smallest Phillips, then with some very thin-pointed needle nose pliers, still no luck, but then I noticed a small slot at one point along the edge, so I "manufactured" a 90-degree extracting tool from a very thin nail, and voila, finally got it out. Appears to me there must also have been a spring involved, no idea where that might have gone, so will just await the new enricher. Wonder how that darn needle broke off like that? Hope that, plus fresh gas, solves the problem.
|
|
|
|
Post by alleyoop on Sept 11, 2014 22:28:58 GMT -6
Great!! Yes the needle and the cylinder both have springs. That should fix your hard starting cold GOOD JOB getting it out. Have to say that is the first time I have seen one completely break off like that.
Alleyoop
|
|
..BAD TO THE BONE..
