My 244cc Cooling Upgrade In progress By damin69 (Read 4,315 times)

[cruiser]

Thanks again, Scott. Imagine a 244cc scoot that can actually run too cool.

[damin69]

Well So today was like 90 degrees. Good test run. Well results were NOT what I really would like to see. It does seem to run cooler but still not what I would consider cool enough. Running 5300 rpms at 55mph for about 30 miles temps climbed up to between the 3/4 and the hot and pretty much sat there while running. So backed off to about 4500 rpms running between 45 and 50mph temps stayed between 1/2 and 3/4 on the gauge. Way home was down to 81 degrees out was able to run 55mph the temps stayed just about 3/4. When Running 40mph the temps stayed below 1/2.

I was hoping to have the temps stay below 1/2 all the time.

[cruiser]

I'm curious how you got all the air out of the system.

I also was expecting better results from your mod. I was thinking about this and here are my thoughts:

Opening the belly pan for additional ventilation for the copper tubes may have inadvertently robbed some of the cooling air from the main radiator. There is airflow to the radiator when the scoot is moving. The floor pan and the plastic hump above it form an air tunnel which directs air from the front to the radiator. Opening the floor pan allows too much air to bypass the main radiator. I would try blocking off the floor pan to see if there is an improvement.

The ultimate setup would be a small oil cooler setup right behind the front grill while still using the tube setup you have in the belly pan. This would probably be real easy to hook up.

[damin69]

Jul 31, 2011 22:37:05 GMT -6 cruiser said:

I'm curious how you got all the air out of the system.

I also was expecting better results from your mod. I was thinking about this and here are my thoughts:

Opening the belly pan for additional ventilation for the copper tubes may have inadvertently robbed some of the cooling air from the main radiator. There is airflow to the radiator when the scoot is moving. The floor pan and the plastic hump above it form an air tunnel which directs air from the front to the radiator. Opening the floor pan allows too much air to bypass the main radiator. I would try blocking off the floor pan to see if there is an improvement.

The ultimate setup would be a small oil cooler setup right behind the front grill while still using the tube setup you have in the belly pan. This would probably be real easy to hook up.

Ok How I got the air out of the system. Lets see if I can explain it. I should have taken Pictures of the process but my hands were kinda full. I picked up one of these.

So I Hook the transfer pump to the Inlet by disconnecting the hose from the plastic filler and getting hose from the pump to fit snug so as not to introduce any extra air in the system. Then I pulled the hose of the water pump and made a make shift type funnel out of a water bottle so that I could see when coolant was coming up into it. The funnel was set up so that it was up above the radiator with the hose from the new copper piping so that the air could escape. That way when the air could come out and any fluid could fall back in without coming out the hose when pumping fluid in and not more bubbles come out and the fluid stabilized if figure the air is out of that part of system. Also I must note this took 2 people since when you pump fluid in the filler it can back feed through the water pump so I had to have my Thumb over the water pump inlet while my dad was pumping. Then I had a small pail to catch any extra fluid. I empty the little extra coolant out of the water bottle funnel take it off the end of the hose. Carefully and Quickly pull my thumb off the water pump and put the hose on the pump. Pull the transfer pump off the filler and put the plastic filler back on the filler tube and tighten down all the clamps. Then Top off and Warm up motor till all gets warmed up. Let it all cool down and check fluid. Did not have to add any Warmed up again just in case. Let it cool off again. Still did not have to add any coolant so figure I managed to get all the air purged from the system. Hope all that made sense.

[damin69]

Ok Breakdown of parts used and process.

First Tools needed to do this job:
tubing cutter
Propane torch
Flux
Solder
Emery Cloth to clean the copper prior to Flux and fittings

Parts:
4 feet of 1/2" radiator hose
10 foot of 1/2" rigid copper tubing.
16 1/2" 90 Degree Pipe fittings .homedepot.com/Plumbing-Pipes-Fittings-Valves-Copper-Pipe-Fittings/h_d1/N-5yc1vZbuu2/R-100345671/h_d2/ProductDisplay?langId=-1&storeId=10051&catalogId=10053&superSkuId=202904973" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">.homedepot.com/Plumbing-Pipes-Fittings-Valves-Copper-Pipe-Fittings/h_d1/N-5yc1vZbuu2/R-100345671/h_d2/ProductDisplay?langId=-1&storeId=10051&catalogId=10053&superSkuId=202904973
10 1/2" 90 Degree fittings like these .homedepot.com/Plumbing-Pipes-Fittings-Valves-Copper-Pipe-Fittings/h_d1/N-5yc1vZbuu2/R-202061324/h_d2/ProductDisplay?langId=-1&storeId=10051&catalogId=10053" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">.homedepot.com/Plumbing-Pipes-Fittings-Valves-Copper-Pipe-Fittings/h_d1/N-5yc1vZbuu2/R-202061324/h_d2/ProductDisplay?langId=-1&storeId=10051&catalogId=10053

Cut 5 pieces of 1/2 tubing 13 1/2" long Then 6 Pieces at 5" 1 piece at 2 1/2"
Clean and solder together to end up with.


Please note before you solder all together. The fact that you can not have the outermost pipe that is on the outside of frame under running board at the same level as the lower frame as the body panel will not fit on so make sure you fit it like this.



The lower hose that connect to the water pump comes out the front of radiator. I hooked that up out let with roughly 12" of 1/2" radiator hose to the new copper cooler. From the other side of the copper cooler measure and cut 1/2" radiator hose to fit roughly 18".

[lynn]

Hey n4zou, not familiar with the hose adapters you were referring to. Where can these be found? Thanks, Lynn

[yoster]

Thanks for the write-up Damin. Do you think it's worth others investing their time to do this? The cooling impact didn't seem to be incredibly huge. Any plans for further tweaking?

[damin69]

Aug 2, 2011 21:12:18 GMT -6 yoster said:

Thanks for the write-up Damin. Do you think it's worth others investing their time to do this? The cooling impact didn't seem to be incredibly huge. Any plans for further tweaking?

Yost. If I can get my but out of bed early enough I will run this scooter to work tomorrow. It will be about 65 in the am and about 83 in the afternoon on the way home. IF in these temps It can keep my temps below the Halfway point I will call this a success. I will let you know tomorrow. If it does not then I think there has to be other issue somewhere in the cooling system.

[damin69]

Well I did try this am. I feel there is something else going on with the cooling. Still only 10 miles and was running up to 3/4 so turned around and took back home. it was only 63 degrees so should have ran even cooler. This mod doubled the coolant and still running warmer than it should be. So that posses the question. What else could be causing this issue?

1 Is not Thermostat. Had problem with old one. Took out for testing warmed up and ran still ran warm with No Thermostat.

2. Added new Thermostat and Modded cooling copper radiator. Still runs warm after 10 miles of 55mph hiway speeds.

So where do I go from here?

[yoster]

Are the copper pipes getting hot at all? If not then perhaps you have a circulation issue; blockage or water pump.

Side note, where did you find that clear fuel-safe (assuming it is) hose that you connected up to that fuel filter? I've been looking for that but can only find clear PVC.

[yoster]

Also, I've always wondered this.. but have we even verified that the scooter IS overheating? I wouldn't at all be surprised if the gauge and rad fan sensor are off.

I tried to shoot the head on my scooter with a temp gun awhile back, and the temp was like 150 when my gauge was at the mid-point.... IIRC. I'll try again this week.

[damin69]

Aug 4, 2011 10:04:34 GMT -6 yoster said:

Are the copper pipes getting hot at all? If not then perhaps you have a circulation issue; blockage or water pump.

Side note, where did you find that clear fuel-safe (assuming it is) hose that you connected up to that fuel filter? I've been looking for that but can only find clear PVC.

Fuel line from local Motorcycle shop. I got the clear from one shop and I got some that is clear/lt blue from another shop.

Yes copper piping it getting hot.

As far as actual Temps Do not know. BUt I do not remember the guage that is on there going that high last year before I did the rebuild.

[yoster]

Alright, this kind of confirms some of my suspicions. Check out the thread below, particularly the post where earlwb measures the temps using the infrared temp gun. He's showing about 161 as his highest measurement (151 when the fan comes on). Those temps are exactly what I found when I measured mine a year or so ago.. and the gauge is in the same place mine is when my fan comes on. When my gauge got up to about 1/2, I read in the 160's with my temp gun (was pointing it at the cylinder housing.. the part painted in black.. seemed to be the hottest point). Now earl has the Linhai, but the same rules should apply.

Shouldn't the fan come on at like 180? More and more I'm thinking we've just got a hyper-active fan that likes to come on too early and a gauge that reads too high.

[edit] - forgot the link!:
scootdawg.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=200cc&action=display&thread=7135&page=2

[JR]

Yoster from what I've always gathered the thermo switch works in this range:

Starts to close (continuity).......208-216 deg F
Starts to open (no continuity)..196-210 deg F


I'm going to agree with you Todd something is going on here because there is no way at 63F that scooter should be overheating and with the added copper tubing with it's ability to shed the heat it should be cool even at 90F easily.

I added only 1/4' copper coils on my linhai on the bypass line off of the thermostat and it disapates heat very well. I would consider a new temperature gauge set up maybe like this?

cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/MODQUAD-RADIATOR-INLINE-COOLER-W-TEMP-GAUGE-2-INCH-BLUE-_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem56456720c8QQitemZ370531573960QQptZMotorsQ5fATVQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories

Or something like this?

cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Inline-Coolant-T-temperature-sending-unit-3-4-hose-_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem1c1d79943dQQitemZ120753591357QQptZLHQ5fDefaultDomainQ5f100

Put this in right before it goes back into the water pump along with a new gauge to get a accurate temp of the coolant before it returns to the engine.

If it's still too hot you've got radiator blockage or a faulty water pump?

JR