bogging @ 1/2 to full thottle By oldbikerarlo (Read 2,912 times)

[cyborg]

I must have missed the whole flat road thing,,,, geez even a scooter with a blownup mill will do 175-200 mph if you push it out of an airplane at 10,000 ft

[geh3333]

Sept 14, 2014 23:59:05 GMT -6 minesweeper said:

Sept 14, 2014 16:30:21 GMT -6 geh3333 said:

The problem with your theory jr is that you have never measured the amount of air and fuel that any 150 scoot" stock or with mods" can pull through the head "

OK, I can't keep my mouth shut. I guess you have a dyno with intake monitors? You know, the several million dollar kind? I know engineers that did testing at the Harley facility in Talladega Alabama and I have been to the testing facility several times. You do not have the kind of equipment to intimate you measured the volume of air flowing through a head. And to suggest guys like JR and Alley just haven't experienced enough to know what's going on is unfathomable. They were at the track in the 60's son....the six-tees. They've both been inside engines up to their eyeballs, all kinds of engines, countless times. They know how they work, all of them, including the GY6. Show respect where respect is due, these guys earned their creds.

That was my point , he has never done it ! , neither have I . But I can hit 67 on a straight run . He won't post the entire thread where I hit 73 on that run ! Yes it was a small decline but in person it looks nowhere near what it does on video . But he will not show the whole thread . My point was I'm running a 32mm pumper carb on a 58.5 bbk plus other upgrades and I've even showed picks of my plug . I have it tuned perfect and yes it screams for a small bbk . I've actually tried and succeeded with a big carb and have great results . That was my point , they won't even try they just say it's not gonna work , I guess I just got lucky , right jr and alley . If you read the post about the 73 mph run alley makes the excuse that " well it was nght hat dosent count " lol . He also thinks I picked up 13mph from that small decline ! . I agree I picked up 6mph from the angle and length of decline . I also admit after running that road It def is a decline but if you read the whole thread you can see I didn't mean to deceive anyone .

[geh3333]

Sept 15, 2014 20:32:42 GMT -6 cyborg said:

I must have missed the whole flat road thing,,,, geez even a scooter with a blownup mill will do 175-200 mph if you push it out of an airplane at 10,000 ft

jr dosent want you to read the actual thread , alleys claims where completely insane and laughable.

[geh3333]

Oh yeah , my scoot tops out around 7500 to 7600rpms on a straight run , on the 73 mph run it topped out at 8000rpms . The 68 mph run I had heavier weights in that's why it only hit 68 . I had to adjust to the new Koso variator I installed . A few have had issues with the Koso and had problems with the belt starting to high in the variator and also having to go down to 8 or 9 gram rollers to be able to run near 7500 rpms on a straight run .

[geh3333]

Sept 15, 2014 8:48:13 GMT -6 JR said:

Sept 14, 2014 16:30:21 GMT -6 geh3333 said:

The problem with your theory jr is that you have never measured the amount of air and fuel that any 150 scoot" stock or with mods" can pull through the head " wether it's a stock head or an ncy racing head with bigger intake and exhaust ports" so you can't say what carb is to big or not . You have to go out and prove it like I did. After my variator issue was fixed my scoot just about pulls the front wheel up at takeoff " just like with my old Koso on there" my 24 mm carb wouldnt even take a122 main because it was too restrictive " not pulling enough air" but he 32mm took a125 and runs like no other with a58.5 bbk . . You don't see many running at 67mph although I have seen some with a 32mm efi with a 58.5 bbk run over 70mph . And this is all on straight runs .

Yes I did see your straight run:

Watched it 3 times to make sure I was seeing it right, ya kind of have to pay closer attention at my age. :-/This was indeed a nice downhill run George and at almost 1000ft above sea level in Masontown and the temps down on that cloudy day you could for sure get a good run.

You know I live in the hills (Ozarks) and I can even get my old stock Bali to haul butt down Petit Jean Mt. which is in my front yard.   Air was good that day and it helped your scooter some. But bring it out here on a good old hot 95F with 80+ humidity day here in Arkieland and get on it and give it a go, I'll even find you a "perfectly" flat spot to give it a run and then you can for yourself see how other conditions effect a engine, hell at 95F plus with that kind of humidity it'll even effect you.

JR

so now it's where I live that's the issue , lol , post the whole thread . I had members send me messages about how alleys claims where way off they just didn't want to get on alleys bad side because they see what happens . Come on a trip I guarentee I'll make you eat your words .

[alleyoop]

Geezzzzzz give it a rest already, ok so you say your scooter can do 68 or 73 or whatever on a flat, but remember this only you believe it none of us believe anything you say anymore after seeing it was really on a downhill run. I knew and know who were the ones that were chatting with you on pms it was so obvious but like you they also are not that knowledgable on this stuff and you managed to bam boosel them.

I just want you to know you did a fine job messing one guy up he now is having problems with the over size carb you talked him into putting on. He asked for my help and I told him I did not think he wanted to hear what I would say seeing that I had already told him his problem long ago on the thread you talked him into getting a bigger carb on his 150.

I will say it again TOTING MPH RUNS GOING DOWNHILL DO NOT COUNT and the funny thing is I can just see you were probably hunched over the handlebars like a little kid trying to get more speed.
Alleyoop

[geh3333]

Funny thing is most of us have hunched over to get more speed , remember I posted that . Yes I have to hunch over to hit 67 mph I've alway said that " I don't have a windshield " I like to test the limits of my engine . We all upgrade these scoots for better performance that's the point .And as for my 1000 ft above sea level , my scoot topped out at 55 stock just like many others , some good cvt work got me to 60 and the top end rebuild with the exhaust and carb put me at 67 . I never claimed anything that wasn't GPS varified . Obviously u can't put it to rest either can you . An as for our buddy his problem is the scrappy engine , it's the second one " same exact engine that will not take even a 30mm carb " with a bigger bbk then mine . More than likely poor quality head work . And it's not at all messed up . He had purchased a 30 mm carb on his own and had never tried it . I encouraged him to give it a shot and the 171cc scrappy engine couldn't take it . All he has to do is go back to the stock carb no harm done . I also built him an intake at no charge and gave him a 122 main jet . So these scrappy 171cc engines wouldn't take a 30mm carb with even a 115 main , but my 157cc eats a 32mm with a 125 main and runs just slightly rich ? Plus there are others using a 30mm carb and a 122 main with a 171cc engine with no problems " non scrappy " i know I'd get his running if I were able to do some work on it . Remember everyone, if you can put more air and fuel through your engine without runnin to rich you will have better results . Also remember cc's are one thing and horse power another , that's why running more air and fuel will give you better performance , horse power is the key . And alley many won't listen to you because you were ignorant to them . And since your so concerned with thinking others are lying remember we've caught you lying before . I only tell the truth wether I or others like it . I ate my words in the post about the straight run being downhill I was wrong and had no prob admitting it . Like I said post the thread . I know just as much and obviously more about these engines since I can " in your thoughts " do the impossible .

And jr we here in pa also get 95 + 80% humidity days . What does that mean ? So my scoot may lose 3 mph on a very hot day like that , SO WHAT! Lol all that means is that all scoots lose a little depending on the weather . But I'll take 67 in 80 -85 degree weather any day .

[JR]

Oct 24, 2014 22:04:22 GMT -6 geh3333 said:

Funny thing is most of us have hunched over to get more speed , remember I posted that . Yes I have to hunch over to hit 67 mph I've alway said that " I don't have a windshield " I like to test the limits of my engine . We all upgrade these scoots for better performance that's the point .And as for my 1000 ft above sea level , my scoot topped out at 55 stock just like many others , some good cvt work got me to 60 and the top end rebuild with the exhaust and carb put me at 67 . I never claimed anything that wasn't GPS varified . Obviously u can't put it to rest either can you . An as for our buddy his problem is the scrappy engine , it's the second one " same exact engine that will not take even a 30mm carb " with a bigger bbk then mine . More than likely poor quality head work . And it's not at all messed up . He had purchased a 30 mm carb on his own and had never tried it . I encouraged him to give it a shot and the 171cc scrappy engine couldn't take it . All he has to do is go back to the stock carb no harm done . I also built him an intake at no charge and gave him a 122 main jet . So these scrappy 171cc engines wouldn't take a 30mm carb with even a 115 main , but my 157cc eats a 32mm with a 125 main and runs just slightly rich ? Plus there are others using a 30mm carb and a 122 main with a 171cc engine with no problems " non scrappy " i know I'd get his running if I were able to do some work on it . Remember everyone, if you can put more air and fuel through your engine without runnin to rich you will have better results . Also remember cc's are one thing and horse power another , that's why running more air and fuel will give you better performance , horse power is the key . And alley many won't listen to you because you were ignorant to them . And since your so concerned with thinking others are lying remember we've caught you lying before . I only tell the truth wether I or others like it . I ate my words in the post about the straight run being downhill I was wrong and had no prob admitting it . Like I said post the thread . I know just as much and obviously more about these engines since I can " in your thoughts " do the impossible .

And jr we here in pa also get 95 + 80% humidity days . What does that mean ? So my scoot may lose 3 mph on a very hot day like that , SO WHAT! Lol all that means is that all scoots lose a little depending on the weather . But I'll take 67 in 80 -85 degree weather any day .

I never said you were lying, and telling me I have or have not is something you need to be careful about. I myself also have never seen where you admitted the what I call exaggeration of your "flat" run, again post videos you might need to be sure what you post when you claim flat to someone who lives in the hills.

67 on a 80-85F day going downhill like in your video isn't a problem at all, so what? I said push it up to 95F+ with high humidity on a "flat" surface and do it, you don't read well. Also promise you this run her at 8k long and it'll not leave your driveway let alone do 60mph + not rocket science here.

You need to move on, this isn't the place for your BS I'm smarter than any of you crap.

JR

[geh3333]

But 73 mph down a small decline like that isn't easy .The only reason I posted the vids was because I was told that it was impossible and that was the only rd with the radar sign which looked pretty straight in person .I hit 60+ going in the other direction . It is not at all a steep grade . My scoot tops out around 7500 rpms on a true straight run and topped out at 8000 rpms on the 73mph posted run. I gained 6 mph down that small decline , that's completely normal considering my scoot is tunned to completely top out at 7500 rpms at 67mph . 6 mph with a 500 rpm increase sounds about right ( that is down a small decline ) . Also I don't see how a so called expert can sit there and say a 32 mm carb will not work when I was successful installing one with a 125 main jet on mine " and with a smaller bbk " . There is no denying that it is possible . And since it is possible then there is obviously going to be an increase in performance . So explain why my scoot can handle the extra air and fuel and the scrappy gy6 200 engine Boggs terribly with a 30mm carb and a 115 main jet ? That's an honest question how do you think that's possible ? Alley being a so called expert should also know that replacing the stock cvt with an ncy clutch assembly and a 115 Koso variator with an 842 belt and tuned in to run at max hp " around 7500 rpms " , this will give you a 5 mph gain from stock . And considering my scoot topped out at 55 mph stock the cvt work got me to sixty and then I did the top end rebuild with the 58.5 bbk and the ncy 58.5 racing head plus the exhaust , final drive gears, cam and so on . It's not hard to see how the scoot can hit 67 on a straight run especially since it's burning a good bit more fuel then most " and not running to rich " . It's not hard work just about anyone can do it some just do it better because they have an open mind and actually try to do things others say is impossible . And that's right jr running at redline for an extended period is not good for these engines that's why I have might to top out at 7500 rpms on a straight run " so I can pass cars if I have to or just run her hard without redlining " no one said it was rocket science , these are one of the easiest engines to work on . If I were to teach someone how to work on bike engines I'd start with the gy6 and then move on to something a little more complex . It's funny that alley acts like it's rocket science and that no one can possibly know as much as him . This is a rookie engine " very fun to ride and work on but a very rookie engine " . Nothing really to brag about . Not like tearing down a gun finding the problem " some fitting new parts that you made on a lathe" and making sure it dosent blow in anyone's face causing death or bodily harm " still very fun but much more to be proud of .

[geh3333]

Jr considering the average ft above sea level in the U.S is above 1000 ft many states having high populations in 5000 + above sea level and some states with over 10 to 15000ft above sea level I still do not sea any relevance in sea level , considering you tune your carb just for such instances so they burn fuel correctly . And as for the temp , there are no real noticeable losses or gains unless your measuring from let's say 60 and below compared to 95 . Same with humidity , this summer wasn't all that bad but last summer was always near 90 % humidity and hot as hell and I still ran 67 mph . I never clocked my scoot in cold weather I did so in riding weather . It's childish to keep making these excuses about weather because it's constantly changing everywhere . Anyway what type of weather do you think they do land speed tests in ?

[alleyoop]

Salt lake is where most do their speed runs BUT very early in the morning or late in the day when it is cool. Actually early in the mornings you freeze you butt out there or sleep overnight out there shit it is cold.
Alleyoop

[JR]

Oct 30, 2014 21:52:39 GMT -6 geh3333 said:

Jr considering the average ft above sea level in the U.S is above 1000 ft many states having high populations in 5000 + above sea level and some states with over 10 to 15000ft above sea level I still do not sea any relevance in sea level , considering you tune your carb just for such instances so they burn fuel correctly . And as for the temp , there are no real noticeable losses or gains unless your measuring from let's say 60 and below compared to 95 . Same with humidity , this summer wasn't all that bad but last summer was always near 90 % humidity and hot as hell and I still ran 67 mph . I never clocked my scoot in cold weather I did so in riding weather . It's childish to keep making these excuses about weather because it's constantly changing everywhere . Anyway what type of weather do you think they do land speed tests in ?

My reference to weather isn't from a stand point of I can start off with the engine cold and make a one time down hill run at over 60MPH anything. No big deal to do that. I live at the base of Petit jean Mt. Can go to the top and if I had the courage could hit 70 MPH+ on a 105F day.

But get on that scooter on one of your or my 95F + days with humidity at a high level ride it 50 miles to Little Rock over the up and down terrain and watch it fade in speed mile after mile especially at 7500 rpm. Sweet spot of this engine at stock is around 7000 rpm. Add more fuel to it and air find and dandy, but you add more  heat too. Ride it long on days like that, at 7500 which is still slightly over the recommended spot and not only will it slow down it'll wear out a lot quicker. So you hit 67mph with it hot again no big deal running down the hill you did, don't doubt it, again come here, run it hard for long runs like it and watch it fade into the sunset and watch you rebuild the head in a very short time. I own 3 air cooled Gy-6 scooter but I also ride two water cooled 250's and it's just for that reason. I rode my 250 today and it was 59F when I did, air nice and crisp, it ran like a scalded ape so would any GY-6 today.

It's simple in theory. Lower altitude = higher barometric pressure, thus denser air, thus more oxygen molecules per volume. The dumb old carb mixes at a pre-set ratio (variable with jet changes). Thus, a leaner mixture will result at lower altitude. Cooler air will be denser than warm, again , leaning the mixture. The humidity alters the oxygen content per volume of air. More humidity need more air, increases heat of the engine equals lower speeds at higher rpm. As the air's humidity increases, the amount of air in a given amount (weight, not volume) will have less air. Less air equals less power makes the carb run rich, yes it can be adjusted but are you going to adjust it every time the weather changes? The stupid old carbureture still meters air and fuel by VOLUME as forced throught orifices by atmosphering pressure. That's why carbs come set at a mid range and that's why on a day like today with cool temps and low humidity you have more oxygen and the engine runs better. Simply put high humidity decreases oxygen.

Oh and where did I learn all this? One of my expertizes in the field of industrial maintenance is air duct, cooling and refrigeration design of cooling systems for everything to engines, electrical motors and even how to remove humidity moisture from large plants in the food industry. Not guessing on any of this. Childish? You even said I've not did a run in cold weather and then you tell me about weather and altitude? So where did you come up with all this knowledge since by your own admission you haven't done a cold run? Also have you ever rode or drove anything in high 5k or above altitude including this "oh look here at my 70mph scooter running downhill with me bent over scooter?" When you do this then you can give me a education on weather and altitude again was fooling with all of this long before you were born.

So right now as I type here in where I live in Arkansas it is 55F and 71% humidity with the barometer at 29.1. We are scheduled for out first 30F night and frost of the season. I can fire that old Bali up with it's stock GY-6 warm her up and take her for test run at WOT and record the speed/results and at the present conditions she'll run like a top. I can then bring her back and do two things to her and make her top out at least 3mph faster. Won't adjust anything on the carb, won't add any fuel additive, won't change the coil, CDI anything on the ignition in fact won't spend a nickel on the scooter and again I can add 3mph + in top end in less than 30 minutes. You could do the same if you know how?

So mechanical expert tell me how I'm going to do this, let us all know how smart and how quick you can do the same?

Comparing your short one time run at 67mph to running it for miles and miles like that is apples to oranges. Also tired of the Alley this and Alley that, want to tell others what you did fine and dandy, want to keep a pissing match going then move on.

JR

[geh3333]

It's funny u mention hvac because I've been installing furnaces , AC units and heat pumps " even though heat pumps here in pa are in my opinion not worth using " for 15 + yrs . I do have to correct you on the mph though my first run was not 67 mph " it was 68 " and after tuning the cvt in where I hit 7500 on a straight run I hit 73 mph down that small decline and I topped out at 8000 rpms . I understand the possibility of hitting higher mph down a mountain side but I do have perfectly straight roads here where I live and I've hit 67 many times on them " and in 90 + degree weather . There is a very steep hill that runs about 1 mile that I hit 79 mph on a couple yrs ago " but I had 13 gram rollers which where to heavy and I did post a thread about it " . I was probably topping out near 6500 rpms on a straight run and 55- 60 mph with the 13 gram rollers and was no where near the engines full potential . Many do not understand that the closer you get to running the engine at it's full potential on a straight run , the smaller the increase will be when u hit a hill . Just like when I had 13 gram weights in , my scoot topped out between 55-60 and down a hill I gained 7 to 19 mph not breaking 8000 rpms , but with my engine maxed out at 7500 rpms on a straight run I'll gain anywhere from 3 to 10 mph " 10 mph down the same I gained almost 19 on " . I gained 6 mph down the decline in the vid I posted to hit 73 mph " which I was shocked I gained that much from what the hill looks like in person ". It's not just the mph gain that is different but the rpms to reach 79 down the very steep hill are different . I have to nearly hit 9000 rpms to get a 10 mph gain " which I do not usually do " with my scoot tuned where I like it .. I still need to order a speedo cable so I'll do that 2night and when I get it installed " next week " I'll record a good 12 mile run so we can see the the mph on straight runs and all in between . That is because I have a speedo that is actually accurate.

[geh3333]

Oct 30, 2014 23:07:54 GMT -6 alleyoop said:

Salt lake is where most do their speed runs BUT very early in the morning or late in the day when it is cool. Actually early in the mornings you freeze you butt out there or sleep overnight out there shit it is cold.
Alleyoop

Bingo ! And it also counts as not cheating . Even though I've never ran in cold weather to gps my scoot . That a why I do not see why the weather is a big deal , it's not like I'm running at 5:00 am in 40 degree weather . I'm running at the temps we all ride in . Hey jr I've never gps a cold run that is below 70 degrees . I've ran my scoot in 15 degree weather before but never used it as a means to get an extra mph while using gps . The reason I said it's childish is because of the very point I just made , I think we are all to old to be nit picking and throwing out excuses at how average riding weather or where I live is why my scoot runs as good as it does .

[geh3333]

Hey jr do you braze when using 410a ? I've been using stay brite #8 which has a higher silver content , no need to braze or use nitro and much easier . It also dosent void any warranties . However when it comes to commercial u still have to braze .