Mysterious Black Box By zz (Read 10,996 times)

[tvnacman]

tvnacman

The more I look at it in the diagram it looks more like a protector for the regulator . We all know that if you try to read the 3 phase ACV with the regulator plugged in you get , like 2-8vac . This is because the regulator pulls down the AC to make DC and dumps the excess dc to ground . that looks like an acv monitor/protector (PTC) protector circuit ?

This is just a guess perhaps I missed something or you guys have something to add ?

could it be pushing a positive dcv on the Green wire protecting high charging voltage ? Say the charging voltage went to 20vdc and you sent 6vdc via the green that a potential difference of +14vdc .

John

[JR]

[replyingto=zzhamblen]zzhamblen[/replyingto]All makes correct sense and my thought was that they joined the blue/white to the black/white and since you are making a diagram the black/white will go to the key ignition switch or the handle bar kill switch or to both?

On a DC powered CDI the norm is to kill the engine by cutting the 12Vdc supply to the CDI (black wire) but on some they will still run a kill wire from the key switch too, my 250B does just that. But some do not.

The black/white wire may just go to the handlebar emergency kill switch only? A simple test:

Using volt meter set to ohms put one lead on black/white wire to CDI and the other to ground.

Turn key switch to on position, you should have no continuity on the meter. Turn the key switch to off position, "if" the black/white wire goes to the key switch then with it in the off position you will read full resistance or continuity. If you have no change at all then the black/white wire does not go to the key switch.

Next with the meter still hooked up turn the emergency kill switch to the "engine kill" position, you should reads full continuity. With it in the "engine run" position you will read no continuity.

These two tests will tell you how the black/white wire is on your scooter and how to put it on your diagram.

JR

[zz]

Here are the voltages to the Mysterious Box. All were read with the green wire as ground an was verified that it was a good ground.
Black=+12.1 VDC Engine stopped, key ON.> Key OFF=0 V.> Engine running +12.8 VDC @ Idle 1700rpm
Brown/White=Engine not running>Key ON or OFF=0 V. Running 1700 - 2500 rpm= +12.8 to +14.0 VDC.
Yellow=8.5 VAC
As far as the Blk/Whi wire and the kill switch/ignition switch I will verify that later but for now I think the Lance Milan 150 diagram is accurate in
that part of the wiring. The seat well will have to come out.

John, I'm not sure if I undestand your last post but am going back to read it again right after I post this.

Dave

[cruiser]

May 4, 2013 20:02:43 GMT -6 cruiser said:

Since you have a very nice 3 phase charging system, it would seem to be unnecessary to add another charging system somewhere else on the scoot. I'm wondering if this mysterious black box is just an electronic headlight switch which automatically turns on the lights only when the scooter is running. Does your scoot do this? If so, you probably do not have a headlight switch.

Black wire from ignition key.
Green wire to ground.
Yellow wire from stator. (to sense when the engine is running)
Brown/white to headlights.

The above is an educated guess for the wires running to the box.

The 250cc scoots use the blocking diode to perform the auto headlight function.

The above is a quote of my previous post. Your readings seem to fall in line with my guess as to the function of each of the wires. You did say previously that you lost your headlights when you unplugged this module. Sounds like a "headlight is on only with the engine running module"?

[JR]

It's a relay sending 12Vdc down the brown/white wire to . With engine off and key on you have 12Vdc on black wire,

With key on/off and engine off you have 0Vdc on brown/white.

But when you have the engine running you have 12.8 to 14.0Vdc on brown/white wire.

Green is ground

Yellow is AC feed to relay which closes the contacts with engine running and sends 12Vdc+ from black wire to brown/white.

Time to trace brown/white to see where it goes.

JR

[zz]

Thanks to all who posted. I have a much better idea of what is going on in the No Longer Mysterous Black Box. Whether the relay is
electro-mechanical or electronic I couldn't tell, could not hear or feel a thing. The wire tracing is a project to be left for another day as
there is much to do.
Found one part that I believe is the correct one for $7.30 and another $48.00 More fun than buyin' a used car.

Dave

[alleyoop]

Where did you find one for $7.30? Put up the link of where you found it in case someone else needs one and at that price you cannot beat it.
Alleyoop

[zz]

Where did you find one for $7.30? Put up the link of where you found it in case someone else needs one and at that price you cannot beat it.
Alleyoop

.pumacycles.com/parts_details_table.php?lb=24" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">.pumacycles.com/parts_details_table.php?lb=24
It is located a little past half way down the page. item description is Controller, Znen Part Number is 150T-9-070008

Dave

Read more: thescooterprofessor.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=chineseclassroom&action=display&thread=2644&page=3#ixzz2T6mAkq3C

[cruiser]

Now that we know it's a controller or relay, what does it control?

[alleyoop]

I think it controls the voltage to the lights because when he unplugged it the lights would not work, the motor ran fine.
Alleyoop

[cruiser]

That's what I was thinking in my earlier post. Takes the place of the headlight switch and turns on the headlights automatically when the engine starts. Just was waiting for verification from the OP.

[zz]

May 12, 2013 19:53:08 GMT -6 cruiser said:

That's what I was thinking in my earlier post. Takes the place of the headlight switch and turns on the headlights automatically when the engine starts. Just was waiting for verification from the OP.

Yes, exactly right.

Dave

[linton1982]

Hi,

I have a CDI that I just cant get my head around.

I have a Chinese 300cc EFI scooter ( Linhai design). It keeps stalling on me from time to time and have noticed it when engine is warm, I seem to think that this CDI ( Factory Fitted ) is too small for engine. Now the scooter runs off a ECU, that similar to a TCI and has a Small 6 Pin CDI box. I believe it to be of DC.

It has a code on it QJ157FMI ( This was Factory installed CDI )

My engine is 173MN

I see that this CDI are common for scooters upto 150cc but nothing past that. Can some one help me.

I think it can't handle the pulse ( energy ) going to the coil and either over heating or just cant produce enough for coil.

My EFI scooter history

It idles at 1500RPM
Idles for a while and then just shuts off with no acceleration ( this has happen since new )
When coming down from high speed acceleration, when de accelerating approaching the 2000RPM point, it sometimes just stalls/shuts down from time to time, not all the time but sometime it wants to stall but engine just keeps kicking over.

I've replaced all parts from TPS, fuel pump, fuel filter, injector, throttle body, diaphragm and fuel lines but no change.

EFI company have done remote tune over the internet on my bike and say runs ok but don't understand why it's stalling. They can't figure it out                               .

I have converted to Carb because of this problem but I have been thinking about it as my EFI only used about 3.5ltrs per 100klm. My carb is using avg 4.7 ltrs per 100klm.

I cant see any Diodes apart from the R/R so I might insert a IN5408MIC on the pulse wire going from the ECU to the CDI.

But I was also thinking that the CDI the scooter manufacturer supplied with scoot is too small. Do I need a larger CDI then supplied, to suit at least 250cc and above engine and/or a CDI with heat-sink.

Any thoughts Please

[JR]

IMO no. Actually I've never heard of a CDI being too small. it's one of the it works or doesn't work things. But I've also never dealt with a combination of ECU and CDI?

Since you have a carb and CDI do you really need the ECU?

JR