Mysterious Black Box By zz (Read 10,968 times)

[JR]

Ok then do this, unplug this mysterious box and see if the scooter will run? Also check for AC voltage on the Yellow Wire with it running if it will run with it unplugged.

If it runs with it unplugged and you have AC voltage on the yellow wire then it's possible it's a light relay? Does this scooter have a headlight on/off switch or just a dimmer switch?

Also since you say you know where the CDI is how many wires to it and what are the colors?

JR

[zz]

CDI Wires: black/white , black/yellow, black, green
No headlight on/Off switch, just Hi/Lo/Pass switch
I am reluctant to run the scoot with the mysterious box unplugged again. I did in the past,
it ran ok but the lights went out. Just not sure if I could damage anything running it unplugged.
If there is no other way to determine what the black box is I will do it again.
If you could point me to a diagram with a HI/Lo Pass Switch I like to see how its done. All the diagrams I have
are Hi/Lo only.
The box is encapsulated in epoxy of some type so maybe a relay.

Dave

[alleyoop]

Best thing to do is TAKE A PICTURE OF WHAT you think is the CDI, because here is the CDI for that scoot and look at the color of the wires in that rotation THEY MATCH :
Alleyoop


SORRY I READ THE THING WRONG SINCE IT LOOKS JUST LIKE A CDI:

IT IS REGULATOR/RECTIFIER:

[zz]

Don't have a good picture of the CDI on hand.
It is similar to the one you posted except it is one 2 pin connector and one 4 pin connector. 1 black wire to 2 pin connector and
the other 3 wires to the four pin conector.
the wires in your pictures look like brown, black, yellow and green.
My CDI: black/white, Black/Yellow/, Green, Black
My Mysterious Black Box: black, green, brown/white, yellow

dave

[alleyoop]

Well if that description of your cdi is what you have then it is a MYSTERY BOX(HAHA), has to be for the lighting then. Some Diode box to regulate the amount of juice going to the lights so they do not burn out.
Alleyoop

[zz]

I agree Alley. Any thoughts on how I can locate another Box. What would you call it. Don't think I'd get much good Info googleing
Mysterious Black Box. Probably something about aliens.
No doubt the name for the box is some thing like "Regulated Rectifier Controller" Gotta love the Chinese name for things.

Dave

[alleyoop]

I would follow the wires to see where they go to, that will tell you right away if it is for the lights.
You know one has to be input juice then some output juice going to someplace.

They do have 4 wire DIODEs/RELAY but I have googled and haven't found one yet, all I can find are the two wire jobs.
Alleyoop

[alleyoop]

I think I found it, I made a mistake it is the picture of it above that I said was a CDI(HAHA).
Alleyoop

absolutelyscooterparts.net/catalog/znen-lintex-large-recifier-regulator-p-857.html?language=

[zz]

Next oil change or next mechanical failure which ever comes first. LOL

.jr-richscooterdoc.com/WD_Lance_milan_150.pdf" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">.jr-richscooterdoc.com/WD_Lance_milan_150.pdf
This diagram in the above link is quite similar to mine in many respects. In the lower right hand area of the diagram to the right of the 3 phase stator is a box
with 4 wires. any thoughts on what its supposed do?

Dave

[zz]

Alley,
Maybe that's it.
I discounted it because I have 6 pin regulator and 3 phase power.

Dave

[cruiser]

Since you have a very nice 3 phase charging system, it would seem to be unnecessary to add another charging system somewhere else on the scoot. I'm wondering if this mysterious black box is just an electronic headlight switch which automatically turns on the lights only when the scooter is running. Does your scoot do this? If so, you probably do not have a headlight switch.

Black wire from ignition key.
Green wire to ground.
Yellow wire from stator. (to sense when the engine is running)
Brown/white to headlights.

The above is an educated guess for the wires running to the box.

The 250cc scoots use the blocking diode to perform the auto headlight function.

[zz]

Cruiser,
I see your comments as a good possibility. Sort of agrees with post #19 in this thread.

Dave

[JR]

There are lots of scooters with the passing switch and here is the Bali 150 that is wired for one, I own one.

.jr-richscooterdoc.com/WD_Bali_150.pdf" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">.jr-richscooterdoc.com/WD_Bali_150.pdf

You can see the black wire that feeds the switch and when pressed it sends 12Vdc to the high beam side (blue) wire and will do so when the key is on only.

Now here's the problem? Most DC type CDI's follow and 5-wire pattern but some do indeed have 4 wires and ya got to have at least 4 to make it run.

Your wire colors to the CDI are typical except for one thing, no wire from the pulse or pick up coil? Doesn't matter if it's AC or DC ya still got to send a message to the CDI as to when to fire?

Now you said
Black = 12Vdc from battery with key on and this can be tested with a volt meter
Green = generally is ground and can be tested by ohming this wire to ground
Black/white = generally is engine kill wire and this can be tested with meter by ohming, with key off will have full continuity or ground, with key on will be open no continuity
Yellow/black = CDI voltage feed to sparkplug coil again can be traced and tested.

But I'm betting that Black/white is pulse or pickup wire from stator to CDI. Are you getting a good look and it's possible this wire is actually blue/white?

you stated this earlier:

From the stator/magneto: 3 orange wires that mates to connector with 3 yellow wires going to a 6 wire R/R
Also from Stator/Magneto 1 green wire and 1blue/white wire

3 orange = R/R AC feed wires to R/R and blue/white = pick up coil feed wire to CDI, you have to have it. Got to see where this wire plugs into?

Now I mentioned earlier about the box and checking voltages. If it is a simple relay to the headlights then as Cruiser said the wires are probably just in that order and you can test them without unhooking them very easily.

Also if it is a relay most of the time when they are activated they will make a small click or if you hold it in your hand you can feel it click when the relay is given voltage.

So again test the black wire for 12Vdc when turning the key on and then with the scooter running check the yellow wire for AC voltage, one can touch the pins without unplugging it.

Also if you unplug it and let it idle only you could jump the yellow to the brown/white to see if your lights come on, if they do then you got your answer.

JR

[zz]

JR,
First Thanks for the link to the Bali 150.
Yes, there is a wire from the pickup coil to the CDI trigger= from the PickUp coil it is blue/white and Plugs into the CDI trigger wire which is black/white.
.jr-richscooterdoc.com/WD_Lance_milan_150.pdf" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">.jr-richscooterdoc.com/WD_Lance_milan_150.pdf
This wiring diagram is identical to my scoot as far as the stator, R/R, kill switch, CDI, Coil. The colors are even the same with one exception:
On the diagram from the pickup coil the wire is Red/White on my scoot it isBlue/White.
Dave

[zz]

JR,
I will measure the voltages on the box tomorrow.

Dave