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Post by rurc on Apr 18, 2012 10:52:04 GMT -6
Glad to be here sorry to meet by begging for help but here it is.
I just got a CF Moto E-Charm. This is the 150cc fuel injected and water cooled unit. It is a 2009 model but I bought it new 6 months ago and it has the full warranty. This does not change the fact that I am having problems and the dealer can't reproduce it.
First a couple sentences about me. I am a master gilded Porsche and Audi tech with almost 20 years repairing them. I got out of the repair industry a few years ago and now work as an aerospace engineer. I am a capable diagnostician.
OK Now what is going on. I am convinced this is 2 different issues going on at the same time. After riding for longer times, 2 hours or so, the scooter will start light failing. You can feel it in the seat of your pants. Just slight hiccups mostly under acceleration but also while steady cruising but in a far lessor degree. Sooner or later it will just die and not restart for an hour or more. It may start but this will only run for moments or until you touch the throttle.
The other issue also happens after long riding. This is cut out during vibration. What I mean here is that if I cross R/R tracks or thick painted lines, anything that vibrates the chassis rather strongly, I will get cut out and many times full shut down. I have also had this happen, which I feel is related; If I have the scooter on the main stand (the one that raises the rear wheel) and I start the scooter, when I go to push the scooter off the stand at times it will die. This happens before the scooter hits the ground. It happens right when I start to push on the handle bars foreword to roll it off the stand. This can happen even when cold but is very bad after the other above mentioned problems start, after riding for a couple of hours.
I don't have a wiring diagram as of yet.
The dealer informed me of problems with vapor lock. While this sounds right for the first problem it does not relate to the second set of issues. I have looked the system over by removing the tray above the motor and have noticed a complete lack of a fuel return system for the excess fuel. This little thing would fix any vapor lock issue and I will be designing a fix for this. I need CF Moto to give me the static fuel pressure required for the system so I can maintain the correct pressure to the injector.
Any help or diagrams will be much appreciated.
Michael
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Post by terrilee on Apr 18, 2012 11:45:46 GMT -6
HI & WELCOME
um
your smarter than me on cars
but i'll offer my 2 cents
1. vacum leak / not enough fuel
2. since it sat for so long , build up in the carb
do a good cleaning
and the vibration still makes me think air /fuel leaks
3. valves probably need adjusted
they have to set em real tight to pass EPA
to get into the country
classic symptoms for valves is hard starting and not idling at stops
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Post by tvnacman on Apr 18, 2012 18:11:02 GMT -6
I would start with fuel pressure . Have you done a read on your spark plug . I would also use a resistor to fool the ECU with o2 readings and gauge the response time . I have never seen an E-Charm , does it have a centerstand switch ? This is an interesting problem .
While the problem is happening is the tempture higher than normal on the gauge ? Are you getting spark during the full shutdown ? Could it be a bad coil that acts up when hot ? (do you own a heat gun)
Welcome to the forum!!!!
John
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Post by JR on Apr 18, 2012 18:39:25 GMT -6
Welcome to the forum and while I'm not familiar with the EFI John is but I do have good news on one thing and that's the wiring diagram. We have one of the best all around manual sections around and CFMoto manuals are no exception. In this section you will see the 150 E-Charm EFI maintenance manual and it's huge! thescooterprofessor.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=5200&action=display&thread=766It has a wiring diagram for this scooter and I'll look it over and you also do the same because the vibration thing for sure sounds like a bad connection or switch for sure. Also I don't know about the CfMoto's but on some scooters the cutting out could be a overheating and going out CDI? It's been known to happen. Again Welcome to the forum.  JR |
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Post by tvnacman on Apr 18, 2012 18:54:01 GMT -6
JR , after I responded I saw he got answered by the gear guy/old fart . I wonder if he is setting any lamda codes .
John
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Post by jeantyou on Apr 18, 2012 19:53:56 GMT -6
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Post by tvnacman on Apr 18, 2012 20:07:25 GMT -6
looks like we might have a spammer John |
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Post by JR on Apr 18, 2012 20:09:56 GMT -6
Yep and products go to the vendor section.
JR
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Post by rurc on Apr 19, 2012 11:17:28 GMT -6
HI & WELCOME
um
your smarter than me on cars
but i'll offer my 2 cents
1. vacum leak / not enough fuel
2. since it sat for so long , build up in the carb
do a good cleaning
and the vibration still makes me think air /fuel leaks
3. valves probably need adjusted
they have to set em real tight to pass EPA
to get into the country
classic symptoms for valves is hard starting and not idling at stops
Thank you so much 1 vacuum leak not enough fuel-- maybe but this has a electric fuel pump and that has checked out ok. 2 no carb fuel injected from factory 3 valves- very possible. I will look into that. However never hard starts and idles fine till it just stops but it does that at speed or idle. |
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Post by rurc on Apr 20, 2012 10:35:09 GMT -6
I would start with fuel pressure . Have you done a read on your spark plug . I would also use a resistor to fool the ECU with o2 readings and gauge the response time . I have never seen an E-Charm , does it have a centerstand switch ? This is an interesting problem . While the problem is happening is the tempture higher than normal on the gauge ? Are you getting spark during the full shutdown ? Could it be a bad coil that acts up when hot ? (do you own a heat gun) Welcome to the forum!!!! John At the 500 mile service they said I had a plug that was fouling and they replaced it. I never saw it. "fool" the ECU maybe but what is the gain? No switch on the center stand The temperature has never been above 1/2 way. It generally would sit at the 7/16 area toward 3/8. I will have to 'noid' the spark to check for spark during shutdown. I think the bad coil when hot is a real idea. I will look to that one for sure. Thank you for the comments |
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Post by rurc on Apr 20, 2012 10:39:57 GMT -6
Welcome to the forum and while I'm not familiar with the EFI John is but I do have good news on one thing and that's the wiring diagram. We have one of the best all around manual sections around and CFMoto manuals are no exception. In this section you will see the 150 E-Charm EFI maintenance manual and it's huge! thescooterprofessor.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=5200&action=display&thread=766It has a wiring diagram for this scooter and I'll look it over and you also do the same because the vibration thing for sure sounds like a bad connection or switch for sure. Also I don't know about the CfMoto's but on some scooters the cutting out could be a overheating and going out CDI? It's been known to happen. Again Welcome to the forum. JR Awesome on the wiring diagram. Thanks I am going to look at the ign coil system this weekend. I will say that I have removed the panel in front of the head. I went on a 70 mile rode with the cover removed to allow more air into the engine compartment and NOT ONE FAULT. not even a hiccup. I am going to find a louver set up and mount that into that body panel. But I am still going to test the ign system and get that replaced under warranty. |
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Post by rurc on Apr 20, 2012 10:41:10 GMT -6
JR , after I responded I saw he got answered by the gear guy/old fart . I wonder if he is setting any lamda codes . John No codes at all in the system. Had it checked and I also have an indicator light if there is a fault and nothing ever has come up on that. |
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Post by imnts2 on Apr 21, 2012 16:59:41 GMT -6
Nice thread. Hope we can keep it going till it is fixed. E charms seem to be good runners stock.
lefty2
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Post by rurc on May 9, 2012 6:02:38 GMT -6
The removal of the front panel has really made a huge difference. I have been on several rides of more than 70 miles and not one problem. Including the pushing the bike off the center stand. I am making a tool that will form louvers into the OEM plastic front panel. Once I do that then I will cut out the intake holes and reinstall the body panel. I have just rolled over 1300 miles on the scooter and I really do enjoy it.
I have heard that CF Moto is releasing a 500cc scooter by mid summer. Anyone know about this?
Also I am changing all my lighting over to LED. Does anyone have a good quality SMD LED that they like? I am also going to make a projector beam HID headlight set up for this. As I gather parts I will start a build thread. I have bought a old light housing and intend on letting that be my guinea pig. The object is to build something brighter that will NOT blind on coming traffic.
Any ideas or questions let me know......................
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Post by rurc on Jun 5, 2012 14:02:24 GMT -6
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