No spark By csmithjump (Read 21,279 times)

[alleyoop]

TO check the wiring orient your CDI the same way and see if the wires are in the same place.
Alleyoop

[linton1982]

Dec 6, 2013 7:12:05 GMT -6 JR said:

Here is your CDI:

.ebay.com/itm/Original-Digital-Igniter-CDI-Linhai-Aeolus-Mainstree-260-300-Scooter-ATV-CUV-Par-/231103114267?pt=Motorcycles_Parts_Accessories&hash=item35ced1ac1b&vxp=mtr" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">.ebay.com/itm/Original-Digital-Igniter-CDI-Linhai-Aeolus-Mainstree-260-300-Scooter-ATV-CUV-Par-/231103114267?pt=Motorcycles_Parts_Accessories&hash=item35ced1ac1b&vxp=mtr

Next question? The old set up had a relay mixed in with the starting circuit which sent voltage to the TCI and was part of the kill switch circuit. Did you eliminate this too?

Looking at your photo I can do a educated guess on each wire since you changed out the system. We now know black is ground.

The reason we must know the wires is to make sure all is well before we say you have a lemon CDI? Could be the coil? Did you get a new coil too? YES Scooter was running and you just got rid of EFI and such right?YES

So let's do a little tracing.

Black = ground

Black/yellow = should go to coil

Now we have 3 wires left so let's do a test to find the engine kill wire. I'm going to say green/white but here's the test.  Unplug the CDI harness plug from the CDI.

Put multi-meter to ohms setting and set it at the 200k setting. Put black lead on negative battery post. With key switch on and engine kill switch in run position put red meter lead on green/white wire. GREEN/WHITE=26.5  -   BLUE/WHITE=0 KILL SWITCH IN OFF POSITION 29.5

If this is the engine kill wire you should get no resistance/continuity nothing. Then with the leads still hooked up put the engine kill switch in the off position, you should get full ohms resistance/continuity or if your meter has the audible tone function full tone as well as a reading.BLUE/WHITE= 28.6

Now put the engine kill switch back in the engine run position and turn the key switch off, if this is the engine kill wire and all is hooked up correctly you will again get full resistance/continuity and/or tone.ONLY ON BLUE/WHITE

If this doesn't pan out we need to do the same test on the blue/white or red/white wire. Once we know the engine kill wire then we only need to establish we have 12Vdc to the CDI.

In fact we can do that first if you like? Set meter to 20Vdc + and put black lead on negative post of battery, turn key on and touch other lead to each wire, blue/white first, when you get a reading of 12Vdc+ then we will know that wire and eliminate it from our test.

BLACK LEAD TO NEGATIVE BATTERY, IGNITOIN ON. BLACK=12.43. GREEN/WHITE=0.03.  YELLOW/BLACK=12.05.  BLUE/WHITE=0.00.  RED/WHITE=0.00

BLACK LEAD NEGATIVE BATTERY, IGNITION ON, KILL SWITCH OFF. BLACK=12.5  .GREEN/WHITE=0.03. YELLOW/BLACK=12.04.  BLUE/WHITE= 0.03.  RED/WHITE= 0.03

RED LEAD TO POSITIVE BATTERY, IGNITION ON. BLACK= 0.10.  GREEN/WHITE= 12.5.  YELLOW/BLACK= 0.0.  BLUE/WHITE= 0.12.  RED/WHITE= 0.12

RED LEAD TO POSITIVE BATTERY, IGNITION ON, KILL SWITCH OFF. BLACK=0.10.  GREEN/WHITE= 12.5.  YELLOW/BLACK= 0.00.  BLUE/WHITE= 12.5.  RED/WHITE= 12.5.

Last wire to find is pulse feed wire from stator to CDI, I'm going to say red/white. Set meter to 200Vac and put black lead on negative post of battery. Put other lead on red/white wire and turn engine over and take reading, it will be low from 0.50 to 0.15 Vac.TURNING OVER ENGINE AT 5 SEC INTERVALS. RED/WHITE READING= 1.9. BLUE/WHITE= 0.5 

There's also the possibility of this system being a system that when killing the engine just cuts power to the CDI?

[linton1982]

MY SCOOTER MAKER COMPANY HAVE TOLD ME THAT THIS IS THE WIRE SEQUENCE.


red/white is Link magneto trigger negative
blue/white is :Link magneto trigger signal lines
green/white :Links to negative line of total power
black is :Link positive line of total power
yellow /black is Link to the ignition coil

[linton1982]

Dec 6, 2013 21:02:34 GMT -6 alleyoop said:

TO check the wiring orient your CDI the same way and see if the wires are in the same place.
Alleyoop

Alleyoop,

THEN THE ONE IN YOUR HAND MUST BE WIRED UP SAME AS MINE THEN?
My CDI!
red/white is Link magneto trigger negative
blue/white is :Link magneto trigger signal lines
green/white :Links to negative line of total power
black is :Link positive line of total power
yellow /black is Link to the ignition coil

Your CDI!
black/white is :Link magneto trigger negative
blue/white is :Link magneto trigger signal lines
black :Links to negative line of total power
purple  is :Link positive line of total power
orange is :Link to the ignition coil

[JR]

OK guys we're getting this very confusing, it doesn't matter what the other CDI and scooter has/is, we're working on this scooter. Different scooters have different wire colors all the time and this 8-pin set up is used by a ton of ATV's.

We have no spark on this scooter after changing out the harness/CDI from the old EFI with a TCI system. Have I missed anything?

MY SCOOTER MAKER COMPANY HAVE TOLD ME THAT THIS IS THE WIRE SEQUENCE.


red/white is Link magneto trigger negative
blue/white is :Link magneto trigger signal lines
green/white :Links to negative line of total power
black is :Link positive line of total power
yellow /black is Link to the ignition coil

I'm sure they are right but unless for some strange reason you have moved the wires on the plug then all should be fine. Now on the original question you're asking why it won't spark.

So all we needed to do was establish if it was a DC type CDI (it is) and find out if you have voltage and a pulse signal?

From all the tests I see that you indeed do have both. This CDI also will have tach output terminals and if this scooter has a tach you may have to work with that unless the harness allowed for it? I labeled two as tach but the rev signal input is actually for a advanced timing CDI and would come from the stator.

I reworked the drawing for you:

So now according to your tests you now either have a bad wire connection, bad CDI or bad coil?

JR

[linton1982]

JR,

Thank you for your help. I don't think it will be bad wire connections as I think there pretty good. I will however, order a new Ign coil and CDI from link you sent me and install one at a time so we find fault of no spark.




 
   I have only one wire connecting rev signal tacho (yellow/black ) / dash assembly  RPM.



I'll post success once parts are installed..


I should have asked you to help solve my EFI problem before I changed. Maybe later date perhaps!!??

[linton1982]

Dec 7, 2013 18:41:36 GMT -6 linton1982 said:

JR,

Thank you for your help. I don't think it will be bad wire connections as I think there pretty good. I will however, order a new Ign coil and CDI from link you sent me and install one at a time so we find fault of no spark.




 
   I have only one wire connecting rev signal tacho (yellow/black ) / dash assembly  RPM.



I'll post success once parts are installed..


I should have asked you to help solve my EFI problem before I changed. Maybe later date perhaps!!??

Does the flywheel magnet on the outside of the housing effect different sparking times in the CDI for 173MN engines. What is the standard length of stator housing flywheel pickup? Mine is about 28mm

Are these length calculated into the CDI programing? Or it doesn't matter about length!?
I think the YP250 is about 60mm. Are all chinese scooter flywheels like my length, standard in Chinese model 250-300cc scooters?
Will any Chinese 8 pin CDI with identical wiring sequence work on mine?(Just like the link you sent me from Fancy Scooters )

Supposedly, this is what is in my scooter.

I'm just trying to think outside the box?

[linton1982]

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Attachments:

[JR]

I would think the people that sent you a new harness/CDI set up would know that it would work or not? Even if the magnets were not correct it would still spark if everything else is right, question is would it spark at the right time? Remember with a CDI system it fires on both strokes the exhaust and intake even though only one is needed.

JR

[ellpee]

Dec 8, 2013 11:41:13 GMT -6 JR said:

I would think the people that sent you a new harness/CDI set up would know that it would work or not? Even if the magnets were not correct it would still spark if everything else is right, question is would it spark at the right time? Remember with a CDI system it fires on both strokes the exhaust and intake even though only one is needed.

JR

Been following this thread even though it's mostly well above my head, but that last sentence answers a lingering question about my after-market tach. It has various settings for how many sparks per rev, and I've been thinking all along that it only fires at the top of the compression stroke. That explains why the readings have never made much sense to me.

[alleyoop]

Linton,
Have you checked the PICK UP COIL on that puppy put a meter on the wire coming from the PICK UP COIL going to the CDI and crank it, it should read .5 Vac. If nothing then that is your problem, that tells the CDI to release the VOLTAGE to the COIL to fire the plug.



Elipee,
Yea if at IDLE is it reading way high like 3000 then you have it set for to the wrong number.
Alleyoop

[JR]

Hey Alley he did indeed measure it and had a steady 1.9Vac, he's in good shape there.

JR

[ellpee]

Dec 8, 2013 21:17:29 GMT -6 alleyoop said:

Elipee,
Yea if at IDLE is it reading way high like 3000 then you have it set for to the wrong number.
Alleyoop

Actually I've been seeing readings LOWER than I would have expected; at what seems like really high revs "by ear" I'm still only showing in the 3000-4000 range. Not a big issue, I really only installed the tach to be able to detect RPM up/down as I play with the idle and mixture screws. That's my summer scoot anyway, it's hibernating for the winter months, so will play with it again in May or so.

[linton1982]

Dec 8, 2013 11:41:13 GMT -6 JR said:

I would think the people that sent you a new harness/CDI set up would know that it would work or not? Even if the magnets were not correct it would still spark if everything else is right, question is would it spark at the right time? Remember with a CDI system it fires on both strokes the exhaust and intake even though only one is needed.

JR

Jr/Alley.

  I found my problem and it had nothing to do with CDI. You will giggle at this but here. I unscrew the ignition coil cap to replace it and guess what, the screw was just a poof tee-nth off from touching the wires, I mean a poof tee-nth. I put new one on anyways and she fired up almost instantly.
Of all the scenarios we looked at, I totally did not think to check the cap end. What a rare find.

Thanks all the same in solving spark issue. Well done team...

Linton 

[JR]

Dec 16, 2013 0:44:35 GMT -6 linton1982 said:

Dec 8, 2013 11:41:13 GMT -6 JR said:

I would think the people that sent you a new harness/CDI set up would know that it would work or not? Even if the magnets were not correct it would still spark if everything else is right, question is would it spark at the right time? Remember with a CDI system it fires on both strokes the exhaust and intake even though only one is needed.

JR

Jr/Alley.

  I found my problem and it had nothing to do with CDI. You will giggle at this but here. I unscrew the ignition coil cap to replace it and guess what, the screw was just a poof tee-nth off from touching the wires, I mean a poof tee-nth. I put new one on anyways and she fired up almost instantly.
Of all the scenarios we looked at, I totally did not think to check the cap end. What a rare find.

Thanks all the same in solving spark issue. Well done team...

Linton 

Awesome! And it's not silly this is a thing that actually happens to many and we dropped the ball not telling you to check for this.

Nice find!

JR