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Post by barry on Nov 25, 2015 13:05:39 GMT -6
Hello everyone,
Just one more question about "Sliders/ Rollers". I see that these come in different weights. How do I know what's right for me..? 20g, 24, 28g..? or in between..? I was told that " Sliders" shift smoother than "Rollers" so sliders it is. I have a 2011 Jonway, 172mm Honda clone. 9300 + mi. 63 yr. old and I weight 220lbs.
any suggestions..?
barry
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Post by JR on Nov 25, 2015 23:25:54 GMT -6
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Post by rooman on Nov 26, 2015 8:28:10 GMT -6
Or directly from Dr.Pulley. I've put in sliders 1.5g lighter than stock roller weights, takes off like a rocket and revs easily up to 8k. Delivery took 4 days after payment. |
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Post by barry on Nov 27, 2015 1:13:02 GMT -6
Thanks rooman,
How much do the stock rollers weight..? Do you remember..?
barry
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Post by JR on Nov 29, 2015 9:19:53 GMT -6
Thanks rooman, How much do the stock rollers weight..? Do you remember..? barry Relying on getting a weight from someone elses scooter is a gamble, why? The Chinese are famous for putting different weights in their engines, sometimes it's as simple as "this is what we have on the shelf today so use them" He can tell you his weight and yours may be one to two grams different either way. I own two linhais and I put sliders in both, the best thing I ever did but the engines had two different weights. If you're going to replace them you have to pull it apart any way so if you want the best results, weigh your rollers and go from there. JR |
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Post by barry on Nov 29, 2015 23:35:49 GMT -6
thanks JR but I'm no mechanic and I live in an apartment with rules. I have to take it to the shop every time something goes wrong and he's so busy all the time. When I said he'll have to take it apart and put it all back together at least a couple of times or more ......now he's asking me to go some where else but I can't. He's the only one in the county who works on imports. If I loose him I might as well sell my bike.
We both just wanted to know the OEM ROLLER WEIGHT FROM THE FACTORY. That's it, that's all. I need to order something now and stop this experimental shit. Did any of you have big problems with OEM rollers..? NO, for most of us the rollers worked fine. I don't remember anyone saying my rollers are bad and need to be replaced. I'm sure that happens now and then. I don't think experiments, collecting data, coming to a conclusion, test results..? Not good enough sorry Nope...do it again. Please you guys, stop it already...I don't have a testing facility, I just want sliders. So I can not weight anything, I don't know how to take it apart. I'm going to loose my one mechanic.
SO should I sell my bike or what..?
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Post by JR on Nov 30, 2015 7:31:00 GMT -6
If the scooter is running fine and not having any issued with the rollers then don't worry about it and ride it. Sliders are used when people want to change the scooter a little to their own liking and/or if the rollers start having problems it's just as easy to go to sliders instead.
If I knew the OEM weight I would tell you but as I mentioned the Chinese can use varying weights, if you want a guess I'll tell you 24grams but if you buy 23 grams and don't like it then blame your mechanic that doesn't want your money not me, in fact if the mechanic told me what he told you I would tell him to piss off and find another mechanic. He's not much of a mechanic if he doesn't want to help you figure out something when you are paying him.
As far as finding out it's a matter of a 20 minute job if he has the tools and wants to work instead of make excuses on experimental shit. If he was any kind of mechanic he would know the Chinese are like that and if I'm betting he couldn't tell you the OEM weight of any name brand scooter either.
We gave you help in a way that you could change to sliders if you like, you or your mechanic don't like our answer so if you and him aren't willing to do what it takes to find out what you need then sell the scooter, ride it like it is, or find a mechanic that likes to earn a buck and help his customers instead of being a half ass mechanic.
I'm no mechanic either but it's not rocket science to take a cover off, open up a variator take the rollers to the local post office and use their gram scale to weigh them, I own 5 scooters and did it on all 5. If I wanted I could pull the scooter in my kitchen and do it sitting in a chair.
JR
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Post by rapidjim on Nov 30, 2015 8:25:40 GMT -6
thanks JR but I'm no mechanic and I live in an apartment with rules. I have to take it to the shop every time something goes wrong and he's so busy all the time. When I said he'll have to take it apart and put it all back together at least a couple of times or more ......now he's asking me to go some where else but I can't. He's the only one in the county who works on imports. If I loose him I might as well sell my bike. We both just wanted to know the OEM ROLLER WEIGHT FROM THE FACTORY. That's it, that's all. I need to order something now and stop this experimental shit. Did any of you have big problems with OEM rollers..? NO, for most of us the rollers worked fine. I don't remember anyone saying my rollers are bad and need to be replaced. I'm sure that happens now and then. I don't think experiments, collecting data, coming to a conclusion, test results..? Not good enough sorry Nope...do it again. Please you guys, stop it already...I don't have a testing facility, I just want sliders. So I can not weight anything, I don't know how to take it apart. I'm going to loose my one mechanic. SO should I sell my bike or what..? I am here to tell you that rollers will develop flat spots and not work correctly, so YES people have had issues with rollers. I work on these machines day in and day out, as well as Hondas Yamahas ect. There is no difference in the design of Chinese vrs Japanese when it comes to working on them. Shops that work on Japanese machines and refuse to work on Chinese machines are just making excuses, they must not need the work. It is just like a shop that won't work on Fords because they work on Chevys. Just not make sense to me. As JR already said and I have seen it numerous times, variator weighs do differ from machine to machine, the reason could be all kinds of things from, mods to improve take off or top end to that is what we have on the shelf. You even see that in cars of the same make and model, one build date will have one part and a different build date will have a different part, see it all the time. The only way to be 100% sure of what you have to start with is to remove them and weight one, just no other way around it. Once you have that information then you need to decide what you are trying to achieve. The over simplified explanation that is very common is that heavier weights give you more top speed, and lighter weights more take off. This is true to a point, but not really. The variator weights control what is called the "constant engine speed". I'm sure you've noticed when you give your scoot full throttle it holds a certain engine speed while the vehicle accelerates. The variator controls this engine speed. If your engine is above it's maximum torque because of too light of of weight, it will not accelerate like it could. If your engine is below it's maximum torque because of too heavy of weight, it also will not accelerate well as it will bog. So, this being said, you can actually gain top speed AND acceleration by lightening the rollers. This is true for a number of reasons. Your engine has a certain engine speed, RPM, that is it's most powerful and most efficient, this is called the torque peak. You cannot get maximum performance without being at this RPM. Second, remember that the variator get to it's maximum contraction almost immediately upon acceleration, and holds there, it's the rear pulley that slowly contracts as rear wheel speed increase, thereby increasing the ratio between engine and wheel, making for more road speed. To conclude and simplify: lighter rollers increase the "constant engine speed", and heavier rollers decrease it. To get a direct interchange between rollers and sliders, go 1 gram higher on your sliders. The reason being is sliders do not need as much force to throw them out, so you do not loose 500-600 rpms like you would with every gram of rollers. Sliders expect around 300 rpm change verses 500-600 rpm changes with rollers. |
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Post by barry on Nov 30, 2015 13:33:18 GMT -6
Thanks you Rapidjim,
Great information. But very, very, very unfortunately everybody say's the same thing, weight first then start testing different slider weights until you get the right one. Not one person on this forum said " Here's the original roller weight, it's a good starting place", are those numbers a secret or something..? Roketa, Jonway, I get nothing from them. Again, I an not a mechanic, I can not open the engine over and over to test and find the perfect weight. I do not have a impact wench to remove the bell housing to get to the rollers. The shop is very busy and does not want to do so much time consuming work, and be way to costly. Again, they are always busy, motorcycles, scooters, ATV's, Snowmobiles, everything, mini bikes, boats. They are the only shop who works on imports, Chinese, Taiwan, Indonesia, as well as Big name brands. And by the way, NO motorcycle repair shop, Honda, local dealers, out of town shops, No one will work on Chinese bikes. They call them Chinese rockets and twist and go's. OK, just to make sure you guys get it. I am totally at the mercy of the ONE MECHIANIC who is willing to work on my bike but make it a test case.
Well, I guess I will have to through in the towel and sell my bike.....I can find no hope here. I'm sure your all correct but that does not help me in any way.
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Post by barry on Nov 30, 2015 13:56:53 GMT -6
Thanks JR,
But, you knew there was a "but" commin'. The problem was the bike was jumping at take off, stuttering for a few seconds before 10mph. At 20mph, it all smooth out till I had to stop again. The mechanic pulled the cover off and said the rollers are uneven and a little worn. I assumed he would order the OEM rollers but there not listed in Roketa or Johway, couldn't find any information. So he asked me to order the parts if I could find them. I did, In weights of 13g to 33g. I had him put it back together so I can use it. It's my only transportation. Dan is a great mechanic, been working on my bike since 2011. Good guy, good son's who also know a lot. The problem , I'm sorry, the other problem is cost. I'm living on disability and went homeless in 2010 do to my failed business. It's just a couple months ago that Uncle Sam started garnishing my monthly checks for those taxes. I didn't even know I had back taxes.
So, life really stinks right now and my only transportation will have to be sold and since it's not running to good I wonder how much I can get for it..?
Thanks everybody, even through all my winning you were all willing to help and I really appreciate it. I doubt I'll ever be back here since I'll have no scoot to complain about, so Thanks Again...
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Post by JR on Nov 30, 2015 19:01:42 GMT -6
Thanks you Rapidjim, Great information. But very, very, very unfortunately everybody say's the same thing, weight first then start testing different slider weights until you get the right one. Not one person on this forum said " Here's the original roller weight, it's a good starting place", are those numbers a secret or something..? Roketa, Jonway, I get nothing from them. Again, I an not a mechanic, I can not open the engine over and over to test and find the perfect weight. I do not have a impact wench to remove the bell housing to get to the rollers. The shop is very busy and does not want to do so much time consuming work, and be way to costly. Again, they are always busy, motorcycles, scooters, ATV's, Snowmobiles, everything, mini bikes, boats. They are the only shop who works on imports, Chinese, Taiwan, Indonesia, as well as Big name brands. And by the way, NO motorcycle repair shop, Honda, local dealers, out of town shops, No one will work on Chinese bikes. They call them Chinese rockets and twist and go's. OK, just to make sure you guys get it. I am totally at the mercy of the ONE MECHIANIC who is willing to work on my bike but make it a test case. Well, I guess I will have to through in the towel and sell my bike.....I can find no hope here. I'm sure your all correct but that does not help me in any way. They're not a secret barry we told you what we knew. I even gave you a educated guess according to what I've seen others have at 24g. Also you just told me another thing about your "so called" mechanic, he actually took it apart and told you that new rollers were needed? Then he put it back together? How much time would it have took you to get them weighed so you both would know, in fact since he's getting paid to know or find out what would have been wrong for him to have done it? Money short, I'm understanding but for him to tell you to get the parts when if he was a real mechanic he would have known they have to be weighed and didn't is all a bunch of BS. I'll promise you he can't just look at any name brand scooter and know the weight of them either. Sorry if I sound harsh but you seem to think we are supposed to know something that your mechanic doesn't know and doesn't want to take the time to find out, again he had the damn thing apart and could have weighed them then, he took your money for nothing IMO. Money is money and being busy is no excuse , hell being busy if you're in business is a good thing, doesn't make a dang what you're working on. My money is just as green to pay you to work on a Chinese scooter as a name brand. If you sell your scooter because you can't take our information to your mechanic, pay him to take a cover off ( a 20 minute job) and have him to let you get the rollers weighed to order new ones then I'm sorry you have a mechanic that is either stupid, lazy or both. |
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Post by ellpee on Dec 1, 2015 18:14:25 GMT -6
"Not one person on this forum said " Here's the original roller weight, it's a good starting place", are those numbers a secret or something..?"
"The problem was the bike was jumping at take off, stuttering for a few seconds before 10mph. At 20mph, it all smooth out till I had to stop again."
FIRST OF ALL, you were told that the weight of OEM rollers can vary for a number of reasons, only way to be sure for YOUR specific scooter is to pull them and weigh them. Want total standardization and predictability, don't buy Chinese.
SECOND, assuming you bothered to take the advice you were given, no need to order sliders in multiple weights, just go with whatever the OEM rollers weighed in at, give or take a gram or two depending on what performance change you are trying to achieve.
THIRD (second quote above), had you stated that clearly as your original problem, some here, I would have been one, would have suggested you look first at your clutch pads to see if maybe they are glazed. That can happen when you are too tentative on takeoff. If so, simply roughing them up with some sandpaper might fix the problem, nothing to do with rollers or sliders, never mind what your mechanic says.
FOURTH, so kindly ease up on your bellyaching about advice you are or are not getting here. In my two-year experience on this forum you are getting pretty good info from everybody trying to help you, but are not listening. If you disagree, feel free to demand a full refund of everything you have paid here for the many answers to your questions.
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Post by rooman on Dec 9, 2015 9:44:49 GMT -6
No other choice really if you cannot find OEM weight on internet. Measure the rollers installed, try all 6 together on kitchen scales. 6 x 24g = 144g, 6 x 23g = 138g etc. Perhaps Dr.Pulley can help? Then order 1g or 1.5g lighter for sliders for smoother acceleration. Good luck. ps: Most 2 or 4 stroke scooters from Asia all made roughly the same way, just the Italians are a little different. |
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