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Post by liammcl on Jul 24, 2011 13:27:08 GMT -6
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Post by JR on Jul 24, 2011 15:11:35 GMT -6
First of all welcome to the forum and can you tell me what year Sky you have? I'm not familar with this scooter but I did find a manual for it but it didn't have a wiring diagram.
Do you have a owners manual with a wiring diagram. I'm sure I could search long enough but if you happen to have one it'll save a lot of time.
First of all this scooter is odd even compared to a lot of honda scooters as it has a 5-wire regulator and this is the first 50cc I've seen with such, in fact a lot of 150cc scooters have the 4-wire version especially the Chinese scooters but here's what is common and here's what we can do.
On your new Chinese regulator the wires should go as follows.
yellow goes to stator
pink goes to stator (common for this wire to be white)
green is ground
red goes to ignition and/or battery
black goes to ignition ( is hot with key on)
So now with all that said my thought is this but without a wiring diagram I can't confirm it;
yellow to yellow
white to pink
green to green
red to red
black to red/black
Again if we can have a diagram to know where your wires go we should be able to match it up, if not then you've got two choices wire it up like I said and get your volt meter out and check the voltages and such or trace out each wire that hooks into your regulator and see if they go where I said and match them to the ones on the Chinese regulator.
I feel certain of the wires on the Chinese regulator but not sure on the Sky?
Keep us informed and again Welcome to the forum.
JR
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Post by liammcl on Jul 24, 2011 20:25:38 GMT -6
Thank you so much for your help and the welcome to the forum ! I have 3 honda Skys, the years are 1998 to 2002, but no manual I'm afraid. I was going to ring Honda support tommorow on 0845 200 800 (UK) but with your help, ( which I appreciate immensely ! ) I think the wiring is exactly as you say. I was kinda getting there with a continuity test from the rectifier to the battery & stator, but I wouldn't hae worked out what the red/black - black wire was, in a month of sundays ! In passing, I did try that layout & the moped wouldn't start, but I'm sure it will tommorow, or that something has blown inside the rectifier when I was trying different combos (I know it was a bit risky...  ) Just this second, I was about to buy 12 of the (kinda) original ones from china for $225 , but there is a 4 week waiting. Just one more question, if I may... Are all regulators much the same with regards voltage & ampage out.. I suppose that would imply that all moped stators generate similar ac voltages & ampage? Many Thanks again Liam |
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Post by JR on Jul 24, 2011 21:51:22 GMT -6
Most are built on a common framework but amperages vary according to the stator and load. Commonly most voltage outputs at the battery with a fully charged batery are in the 14.5 to 15vdc range. This much is needed to keep a fully charged battery.
The R/R converts the AC wave into a DC one and then regulates the output according to needs of the scooter, if amp/voltage needs are small then it shunts higher output to ground, if more output is needed then it supplies the max according to it's rating.
Again I wish I has a diagram of this scooter and the R/R should have nothing to do with the starting of the scooter unless it's wired in a way I'm not familiar with? On all scooters I've dealt with one can unplug the R/R and the scooter will start fine with a kick starter or electrically provided it has a hot battery. If you said remove the CDI then that would be a different story.
When you say wouldn't start did you mean it will not even turn over or it won't start even if the engine is turning over fine?
Have you checked to see if the spark plug is firing?
JR
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Post by liammcl on Jul 25, 2011 6:37:35 GMT -6
Thanks again JR.
It is a weird one all right,
with the original R/R the moped starts first time (there's only 1v at the terminals)
but when I unplug the R/R the moped stops instantly and wont start with it out !
I don't know why, it must be some weird thing with it...
I'll take another moped to bits to check it does the same.
Cheers
Liam
*edit* with te new chinese R/R in , it won't start either.
The engine turns over but won't fire, it's the same as when the R/R is disconnected.
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Post by JR on Jul 25, 2011 6:55:17 GMT -6
Very strange! Since you have 3 of them can you check to see if the others do the same? Also did you buy this scooter new or used? reason I ask is could someone else compromised the wiring?
JR
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Post by liammcl on Jul 25, 2011 7:31:49 GMT -6
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Post by JR on Jul 25, 2011 8:08:56 GMT -6
Alright then for sure we have got to search the web and get a wiring daigram. For sure this appears to be a R/R in your picture but again I'm looking at a 5-wire diagram of a typical Chinese scooter and I know the scooter will run with the R/R disconnected.
You search from your end and I'll do the same from my end, hit the Honda forums, google, etc. because without a diagram I'm totally in the dark now? Surely this is not the CDI instead?
JR
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Post by liammcl on Jul 25, 2011 17:37:30 GMT -6
Thanks JR, I've just ordered some from China, $15 a go , instead of $100, so hopefully in 4 weeks, they'll arrive and work. .china-atv-parts.com/Regulator-Rectifier-440.html" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"> .china-atv-parts.com/Regulator-Rectifier-440.htmlOn the site , they say it'll work on a Suzuki Katana 50 too, so I'm looking for a wiring diagram of that, if I can't find the Honda one. This is an ebay listing for the Katana one , here it says it'll fit the AY50 and AE50 models... cgi.ebay.ie/SUZUKI-DUCATI-RECTIFIER-KATANA-SCOOTER-AY50-AE50-/160620987235?pt=UK_Motorcycle_Parts&hash=item2565c1c363There's the Haynes manual... .ebay.co.uk/itm/HONDA-SGX50-V-X-Y-SKY-97-03-HAYNES-MANUAL-/170607402246" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">.ebay.co.uk/itm/HONDA-SGX50-V-X-Y-SKY-97-03-HAYNES-MANUAL-/170607402246On the side of the R/R there is a code "34 34 83" and the name "Ducati" on the top sooo.... .sgr-it.com/download/pdf/07d.Ducati.2008.pdf" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">.sgr-it.com/download/pdf/07d.Ducati.2008.pdf& searching for 34 34 83 gives another code 34.8483 which then gives another Ducati code of 434348300 which when googled gices this site.. .viomotor.ro/piese-si-accesorii-moto/piese-electronice/piese-electronice-c80/aprindere-electronica-cdi-piaggio-p541.html" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">.viomotor.ro/piese-si-accesorii-moto/piese-electronice/piese-electronice-c80/aprindere-electronica-cdi-piaggio-p541.htmlwhich mentions CDI in the description so some say it's a R/R and this (maybe?) a CDI *confused* so, Honda, Suzuki, Ducati all make use of it... & that's as far as I've got tonite.. Cheers Liam |
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Post by JR on Jul 25, 2011 20:06:59 GMT -6
Nope not confused now after all the info you just left, if you go to the last link you posted you see "CDI Honda 4T" and if you click on it you'll see the Honda CDI they list: .viomotor.ro/piese-si-accesorii-moto/piese-electronice/piese-electronice-c80/cdi-honda-4t-p653.html" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">.viomotor.ro/piese-si-accesorii-moto/piese-electronice/piese-electronice-c80/cdi-honda-4t-p653.htmlThis is a carbon copy of as far as looks of a typical GY-6 CDI. The only reason I asked about the possibility is again I have yet to see a scooter not run without the R/R plugged in but now this is the first so again we've got to find a wiring diagram. Don't know the history on this scooter but since you've found things showing other parts like Ducati which I knew other companies used then it for sure looks like Honda did some similiar things and copied others. Again the 5-wire R/R is not a common item on a 50cc at all so it's apparent they have done wiring that is intergreted into the ignition circuit. I'm guessing it's a direct tie in or a series type scheme that with the R/R removed the CDI's voltage is cut therefore no spark to the sparkplug even though it will turn over. If this is the case then unless you're willing to change the wiring circuits the chinese R/R will not work. But again let's not jump to conclusions untill we know for sure and knowing this R/R also fits the Suzuki's now gives another avenue to look at a 5-wire diagram for a 50cc scooter. On a mission to figure this one out. JR |
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Post by liammcl on Jul 25, 2011 21:49:15 GMT -6
Thanks JR, I've just had a quick look at a moped forum in Dutch, and the wiring diagram looks like the right hand most wire (red and black) of thr R/R does go to the CDI unit. In the diagram , the colours are different because it is a suzuki ay50 katana (the R/R is the same) Here's the link to the manual & wiring diagram .scooterhulp.com/instructieboekjes-en-manuals/9200-suzuki-ay50-katana-sh-rip-manual.html#post18542" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">.scooterhulp.com/instructieboekjes-en-manuals/9200-suzuki-ay50-katana-sh-rip-manual.html#post18542...and I'll try and upload it to my site, to save you having to register in Dutch. Here's a quick pic... i103.photobucket.com/albums/m147/liammcl_2006/honda%20sky%20moped%20-%20sgx50/moped2.jpgbtw, this is what the cdi for the Honda Sky looks like i103.photobucket.com/albums/m147/liammcl_2006/honda%20sky%20moped%20-%20sgx50/DSC00006.jpgI'll have a proper look 2mrw. Thanks for all your help, it was very much appreciated JR We've covered a fair trail .... the UK , USA , Japan (Honda & Suzuki), Italy (Ducati ) & Holland (Manual) Cheers Liam * Edit * You should be able to download it from my site for a bit, .loonyl.talktalk.net/JR/Suzuki%20AY50%20Katana%20SH%20RIP%20manual%20optimized.pdf" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">.loonyl.talktalk.net/JR/Suzuki%20AY50%20Katana%20SH%20RIP%20manual%20optimized.pdf |
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Post by JR on Jul 26, 2011 16:11:15 GMT -6
LOL Yep around the world and now looks like in the picture you have a black/red to your CDI? So with that said you can verify if it goes to the R/R with an ohm meter. This is the first time I've seen the CDI powered from the R/R but if the diagram is right and I'm betting it is then as I said before the Chinese R/R will not work as they are not linked to the CDI.  In this recent help file I posted you can review a lot of electrical things about Chinese scooter electrical including the CDI and R/R and you'll see how they work on a typical Chinese scooter: thescooterprofessor.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=gele&action=display&thread=248I've copied this diagram and thanks for sparing me the learning Dutch!  But it'll come in handy as in the future I plan on posting wiring diagrams too and this one is tough to find, still haven't found an English version and I'm putting all my google skills to work!  In the diagram on this scooter the stator only has one AC output lead also where as the typical Chinese stator has two with both generally going to the R/R and some even are 3-phase with 3 outputs. The Chinese CDI if it is an AC one gets it's power from the stator directly and has a pick up wire to send a signal as to when to fire. This system is again totally different and I'm sure it could be made to work with a Chinese R/R but one would have to do quite a bit of re-wiring.  This has for sure been fun and educational and I'm so glad you came to our new forum to share it with us and don't be a stranger, we post on a lot of things and as in my mission statement I'm hoping to have a forum that tries to help all and everyone no matter what brand set of wheels you ride. I'm going to get non-chinese scooter help files downloaded and lots of manuals including Honda so spread the word!  Be sure to let me know if that black/red wire on your CDI does actually go to the R/R, I sure want to know. JR |
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Post by liammcl on Jul 26, 2011 18:03:17 GMT -6
Hi JR, Yup 100% the red/black from the R/R connects to the red/black of the CDI. (I've just tested it with a continuity test.) i103.photobucket.com/albums/m147/liammcl_2006/honda%20sky%20moped%20-%20sgx50/DSC00007.jpgIt all makes sense now eh? lol Thanks for all your help because I would still be trying all combinations of the chinese one. Also, it has been fascinating to finally see what the colours of the chinese R/R actually mean, I'm sure it'll come in handy in the future, for sure ! Thanks for the link to the pdf, I'll have a look real soon. It is a bit strange that the Honda is wired as it is, because I wanted to test the ac voltage from the stator to see it wasn't outside specs......but that's for another day btw, the wiring diagram is at the end of here, for now. (Please save a copy, if it's any use to you ) .loonyl.talktalk.net/JR/Suzuki%20AY50%20Katana%20SH%20RIP%20manual%20optimized.pdf" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">.loonyl.talktalk.net/JR/Suzuki%20AY50%20Katana%20SH%20RIP%20manual%20optimized.pdfYup, it is a fantastic site & I wish you all the very best JR. Till next time , ttfn Cheers Liam |
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Post by JR on Jul 26, 2011 18:19:08 GMT -6
Thanks for the PDF, will save it! Yes it was an education for sure but I enjoyed every minute of it and the funny thing is Honda does wire a lot of their scooters in the Chinese manner, but why not this one?
Just wish you hadn't bought all those R/R's. Please feel free to holler back with any more questions and also tell all of your fellow Englishmen about us!
JR
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Post by liammcl on Jul 26, 2011 19:05:36 GMT -6
Oh, it's fine JR, I only bought one for £10 ($15) the other 12 I've ordered should work fine, as they stipulate that htey are for the Honda sky. I am at this moment taking one apart to see what's on the PCB, just for interest. For sure, I'll let people over here know. I'll raise a cup of tea to your good health Cheers Liam |
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